Race for ROY - revised title

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

only 2 star players have won it and that was the season that they became stars, mcgrady in 2001 and arenas in 2003... well maybe j-oneal in 2002 i guess but everyone else have been average players.

I'm sure that Danny Granger, Hedo Turkoglu and Kevin Johnson will be pleased to know that you think that they are/were average players.

[VF21]

I disagree. It may seem like that now but I contend that quality and results are more important even to Kings fans than being a media darling.

You can disagree all you like. I've read the comments of Kings fans here and on other Kings boards since 2001. You're making an assumption that is simply not borne out by facts, and distorting the premise in the process.

Quality and results are indeed important but if the national media does not give proper recognition to said quality and results there will be Kings fans sharpening their pitchforks and lighting their torches. It's happened before.

I am not arguing that quality and results are not more important than media attention. What I'm pointing out is that it won't matter to a certain segment of the Kings fan base how good someone is and what the results are IF they do not garner us at least 15 minutes of fame on SportsCenter. History proves me correct.

[Sparky6string]

You can disagree all you like. I've read the comments of Kings fans here and on other Kings boards since 2001. You're making an assumption that is simply not borne out by facts, and distorting the premise in the process.

Quality and results are indeed important but if the national media does not give proper recognition to said quality and results there will be Kings fans sharpening their pitchforks and lighting their torches. It's happened before.

I am not arguing that quality and results are not more important than media attention. What I'm pointing out is that it won't matter to a certain segment of the Kings fan base how good someone is and what the results are IF they do not garner us at least 15 minutes of fame on SportsCenter. History proves me correct.

Looks like we can both disagree all we want. Like I said earlier there will always be complaints, all I'm saying is that fans and the organization will be more satisfied with an unsung quality player than someone that garners a lot of attention with less results. No way to really know for sure unless we had parallel realities.

EDIT: Actually your position may be more prevalent here, I don't know as I haven't been around here long. I know many Kings fans though and none have ever expressed any sort of concern about individual media coverage for Kings players so maybe it's just a narrow subset of Kings fans that hold it to be so important, possibly internet driven.

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

EDIT: Actually your position may be more prevalent here, I don't know as I haven't been around here long. I know many Kings fans though and none have ever expressed any sort of concern about individual media coverage for Kings players so maybe it's just a narrow subset of Kings fans that hold it to be so important, possibly internet driven.

This is entirely possible, but I find it interesting that you assume that to be the most likely explanation. Interesting because it seems statistically unlikely that you personally know as many Kings Fans that post on this board, which suggests to me that the more likely proposition is that you may be extrapolating the "many Kings fans" that you know as a microcosm for Kings Fans in general.

Your mileage, clearly, varies.

[AriesMar27]

I'm sure that Danny Granger, Hedo Turkoglu and Kevin Johnson will be pleased to know that you think that they are/were average players.

yeah... pretty average... best player on a bad team isnt that great of a thing to be.

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Gilbert Arenas is the best player on a bad team. He can't do half of what Danny Granger can do. And neither Turkoglu nor Johnson were ever the best player on a bad team; they are/were more like the second-best players on very good teams.

[Sparky6string]

This is entirely possible, but I find it interesting that you assume that to be the most likely explanation. Interesting because it seems statistically unlikely that you personally know as many Kings Fans that post on this board, which suggests to me that the more likely proposition is that you may be extrapolating the "many Kings fans" that you know as a microcosm for Kings Fans in general.

Your mileage, clearly, varies.

Actually I merely presented that as a possibility, never making any assumptions. You are the one here that has made assumptions. Also I find it strange that you wouldn't entertain the idea that a certain point of view could be more prevalent and even inspired by the internet. As NBA internet forum regulars you are in a subset of Kings fans. I submit that many of your positions may not be shared by fans of the Kings that don't frequent fan sites.

[6th]

Actually I merely presented that as a possibility, never making any assumptions. You are the one here that has made assumptions. Also I find it strange that you wouldn't entertain the idea that a certain point of view could be more prevalent and even inspired by the internet. As NBA internet forum regulars you are in a subset of Kings fans. I submit that many of your positions may not be shared by fans of the Kings that don't frequent fan sites.

Well, I don't know where these other Kings fans are, but I know many many Kings fans, particularly at my job site, who do not post here (or on any message board). The majority (not to say they all do) feel very much the same way that others here have stated. It could be the types of fans everyone knows. Sometimes we get to know fans that have much the same thoughts and/or feelings as we do ourselves. Just a thought.

[6th]

I understand what you mean. However when youre the fan of one of the least respected franchises, media wise, and you FINALLY have something worthy of recognition and you STILL dont get it...it can really piss you off.

I think that Chupacabra expresses best what many Kings fans feel, especially those in Sacramento. I think Sacramento is so used to being disregarded, particularly by those in southern CA, that we take umbrage when we have anything that should get recognition, and we still don't get it. Many people see it as a lack of respect.

[Sparky6string]

Well, I don't know where these other Kings fans are, but I know many many Kings fans, particularly at my job site, who do not post here (or on any message board). The majority (not to say they all do) feel very much the same way that others here have stated. It could be the types of fans everyone knows. Sometimes we get to know fans that have much the same thoughts and/or feelings as we do ourselves. Just a thought.

So the fans your know are more concerned with individual media coverage than quality players and wins? I don't know what to say then. You may be right- like minds attract. Clearly there are vast differences in Kings fans- much more so than I would have though.

Speaking of which what are the other Kings Forums that are worth a peek? Are there other ones that have a decent amount of members?

[6th]

So the fans your know are more concerned with individual media coverage than quality players and wins? I don't know what to say then. You may be right- like minds attract. Clearly there are vast differences in Kings fans- much more so than I would have though.

Speaking of which what are the other Kings Forums that are worth a peek? Are there other ones that have a decent amount of members?

I think you mischaracterize many Kings fans. Of course we want wins. But, even in losses we are seeing a huge improvement in this team, and we believe it is only a matter of time before the wins start racking up on a regular basis. I don't think wins and losses have anything to do with our desire to get some good media coverage, for a change. We have a guy, who at the age of 20, is doing a fantastic job, as only a rookie (both offensively and defensively). Since we are so used to the lousy coverage (and often deservedly so when you look at last year), we would sure like to get some good coverage (for our players and our team) when they deserve it as well.

[Sparky6string]

I think you mischaracterize many Kings fans. Of course we want wins. But, even in losses we are seeing a huge improvement in this team, and we believe it is only a matter of time before the wins start racking up on a regular basis. I don't think wins and losses have anything to do with our desire to get some good media coverage, for a change. We have a guy, who at the age of 20, is doing a fantastic job, as only a rookie (both offensively and defensively). Since we are so used to the lousy coverage (and often deservedly so when you look at last year), we would sure like to get some good coverage (for our players and our team) when they deserve it as well.

I've tried at every turn in this discussion to keep Kings fans from being characterized like that. Go back and read the last couple of pages. I was the lone defender of that position.

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone here.

OK I'll level with you I'm more an admirer of a blue collar player such as Tim Duncan or John Stockton than the media darling type like Gilbert Arenas. I'm the old school type that believe in bringing your lunch pail to work with you and getting dirty. There certainly are benefits from getting national media exposure such as increased ticket sales from hype, creating a national fan base etc. I wouldn't mind that at all. That just isn't my focus.

Also in drafts I always just hope for a usable player since I've seen so many busts over the years. Even the #1 overall can bust and does so frequently enough. If my team walks away from a draft with a competent usable player IMO it was a smashing success. That media coverage thing is not in my control and I don't worry about it.

[gunks]

Co-Sign


Personally I'm happy for the Bucks. That franchise has been in the dumps for awhile now too, good for them to get a player like Jennings.

Fact is, as Kings fans we shouldnt be bitter because Reke is just as studly. He just doesnt have people going ga-ga over him because he didnt drop 55 on the Dubs in over 40 minutes of play (when do we play them again anyways? Reke should shoot for 60 just because he can...And he can.).

Good for the Bucks, good for us. It's not like we passed on Jennings and picked up a Dud. We're going to get to watch amazing battles for years between Reke and Jennings. I cant wait for the first one.

[hrdboild]

The fuss (about who's leading the ROY race) is pre-mature at this point anyway. People are talking about Jennings because he had a near triple-double in his NBA debut and was the youngest ever to score 55 in a game. That's two huge games in a short span. Evans and Jennings are pretty much even at this point statistically, but those huge games get people's attention. It certainly isn't because Evans is in Sacramento because Milwaukee is at least as passed over as Sacramento in terms of major media coverage. When was the last time you remember seeing Bucks highlights on ESPN? Has it ever happened?

[Bricklayer]

The fuss (about who's leading the ROY race) is pre-mature at this point anyway. People are talking about Jennings because he had a near triple-double in his NBA debut and was the youngest ever to score 55 in a game. That's two huge games in a short span. Evans and Jennings are pretty much even at this point statistically, but those huge games get people's attention. It certainly isn't because Evans is in Sacramento because Milwaukee is at least as passed over as Sacramento in terms of major media coverage. When was the last time you remember seeing Bucks highlights on ESPN? Has it ever happened?

Agree with that -- big as the games against CP3 and Deron were, Evans needs a signature game to realy capture the imagination of the national media. Unfortunately the deeper into the season it comes, the less likely it is to get noticed. Also means that barring compelte collapse or significant injury its hard to imagine Jennings not being at least co-rookie of the year at this point. But if there end up TWO PGs from the draft averaging well over 20 5 and 5 a split of the award is distinctly possible.

[MoneyMike916]

ESPN just bumped the Suns/Timberwolves game on Friday to show Bucks/Thunder instead.

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Actually I merely presented that as a possibility, never making any assumptions. You are the one here that has made assumptions. Also I find it strange that you wouldn't entertain the idea that a certain point of view could be more prevalent and even inspired by the internet...

You distort my argument. I make no effort to claim that KingsFans.com speaks for all Kings Fans, nor do I personally hold the position that this board is definitively representative of all Kings Fans. What I do suggest is that it is, statistically speaking, far more probable that KF.com provides a far broader and more representative (and possibly even more accurate) portrayal of Kings Fans worldwide than the handful of fans that you know personally. I do not discount any other theory as possible, but if you have a credible argument for why I should believe that any other possibility is more likely, I'm all ears.

[Sparky6string]

You distort my argument. I make no effort to claim that KingsFans.com speaks for all Kings Fans, nor do I personally hold the position that this board is definitively representative of all Kings Fans. What I do suggest is that it is, statistically speaking, far more probable that KF.com provides a far broader and more representative (and possibly even more accurate) portrayal of Kings Fans worldwide than the handful of fans that you know personally. I do not discount any other theory as possible, but if you have a credible argument for why I should believe that any other possibility is more likely, I'm all ears.

I'm not distorting anything, but that seems to be a popular claim around here. Your theory that "KF.com provides a far broader and more representative (and possibly even more accurate) portrayal of Kings Fans worldwide than the handful of fans that you know personally" may be true, however my sample included fans I have talked to over the 22 years of being a Kings fan as well, not just my friends. The absolute stark absence of that conversation completely led me to believe that it may be more of an internet thing. The thing is , respectfully, I don't care what you believe and I'm not here to sway your position on any topic. I made what I considered to be a simple innocuous statement and found myself defending it repeatedly.

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'm not distorting anything, but that seems to be a popular claim around here. Your theory that "KF.com provides a far broader and more representative (and possibly even more accurate) portrayal of Kings Fans worldwide than the handful of fans that you know personally" may be true, however my sample included fans I have talked to over the 22 years of being a Kings fan as well, not just my friends. The absolute stark absence of that conversation completely led me to believe that it may be more of an internet thing.

What do you mean by "an internet thing?" What, exactly, is "an internet thing?" Are you suggesting that the posts that you read on the internet are not representative of real people? Are you suggesting that all of the people here who hem and haw over the media's coverage of the Kings (which you may note that I am not among) are being disingenuous, and just pretending to care about that stuff because they're on a message board?

[Henkel]

Both of you are using anecdotal evidence and acting like its fact or at least suggesting that one of your observations has more merit. Neither of you have any real evidence to back up your claims, so just agree to disagree already and allow this thread to get back on topic.