Terrible Players, Or Terrible Use of our Players?

[rainmaker]

Kingsfans seems to be slowly dividing into two camps. One side believe our roster does have talent, and while the talent doesn't fit all that well we do have the talent to be much more competitive than we currently are, and a large part of that boils down to our coach's incorrect use of our players and not running an offensive system based on his players strengths. Or really, an offensive system at all.

Then there's the ever growing second group, who's sick of the losing, believes there isn't much talent on this roster at all, no coach could improve our competitiveness due to our lack of talent, and our best option going forward is to blow the whole damn thing up, starting with Reke and Cuz.

I'd argue that while our talent does not fit all that well, the larger issue and the main reason for our 4-12 record is the use of the talent we do have, and that the lack of an apparent offensive system is killing our team.

Here's a brief look into our past and a look at the system run by the best coach in Sac history.



BJax feeds the ball to Vlade at the high post, Peeler and Christie providing spacing at the 3pt line on opposite sides. BJax dives, Peeler curls, Christie curls from opposite wing, then BJax curls around Vlade for the jumper.

That could work by switching Brooks/Jimmer/MT with BJax, and Cuz with Vlade, getting a good shot in rhythm.


Here ball is swung, then given to Brad at the high post, followed by down screens on both sides of the floor for both Bibby and BJax. Constant motion. Motion with intent.

No reason we can't have Cuz at the high post with this kind of motion and our shooters coming off screens for easier looks. It'd be a great set to run in the 2nd or 4th when Cuz, MT and Jimmer are out there and have both MT/Jimmer curling from opposite side.


Here ball is swung, hitting Brad on the perimeter while BJax dives. Christie spacing the floor and notice as BJax curls up top for the handoff, Peeler dives to the far baseline providing spacing and clearing room.

This is a perfect set to run between MT and Cuz, yet we've never seen anything like it run.


This is incredibly simple and could easily be run between Cuz and Reke. Floor spaced, but Cuz and JT at both elbows, Reke feeds to Cuz, then JT screens Reke's man as Reke curls back door.

We simply don't see this spacing and this set for example is incredibly simple. Our players are not too dumb to run this.

[rainmaker]

This would be another pretty simple set to run. Feed to Cuz at the high post, JT at the other elbow, Reke(Chistie) cuts back door to clear room occupying JT's defender for a split second, and JT gets the 15 ft jumper he likes.



I'd like to see something similar to this between JT and Cuz, and both are more mobile than the Brad/Vlade combo was. Ball swung, Cuz(Vlade) screens JT's(Brads) man as JT dives, then re-screens JT's man and JT comes up, receives pass, dump off to Cuz(Vlade). The movement causes confusion and forces the defense to choose. One thing we rarely see are any of our 4's screening Cuz's man and hitting Cuz on the move. It'd make life a lot easier for him.


Two man set which could easily be run with Reke/Cuz a couple times per game, but requires spacing and an entire side of the floor to work with. If Bibby is replaced with Brooks, feeding Cuz than cutting through to the far corner will clear space, and with he and Salmons spreading the floor the defense wouldn't be playing off. If Salmons is where Peja is, even if the defender plays off a bit more there's no way he gets there in time to stop Reke(Christie).



This set is a beauty. After Vlade receives at the high post, Christie curls around provide spacing, and BJax comes off double screens on the opposite side, and if we ran this that's where it'd stop. But instead, here, Peja clears to the opposite side, (that spacing thing again) as Vlade moves down, but Vlade isn't just wondering around, he's moving with a purpose, and as BJax feeds the ball into the post, Vlade is setting a soft screen on Peja's man where Peja never stopped moving, and Peja curls, receives and easy pass and gets the layup.

That play didn't require shooters on the floor as much as it required spacing and movement. Peja's shooting didn't come into play, and you have BJax who can shoot up top with Christie who wasn't a respected shooter at all.



Thought some might find this interesting. Yes that team had more talent, but it was used far more effectively, and this system, just like Pop's in SA, is/was a system where you can plug different guys in and out, shooters and non shooters, All Stars and non-All Star, and get quality shots. This is a far cry from the iso ball we see with poor spacing. And we have a guy in Cuz who can pass and could run the high post offense with movement/options like this. We have guys who can shoot in Brooks/IT/MT/Jimmer and sometimes Salmons/Reke. We have the athletic wing in Reke who could excel in a two man game with Cuz operating out high with one side cleared.

Yet, we rarely see any sets run to actually help our players and make it easier for them. that Kings era had more talent, but even with that talent Rick wasn't just calling iso's and telling them to just play their game and make shots. No, even with more talent he still found ways to get guys easier shots.

BTW, **** the Maloofs for not working it out with Rick. It's depressing watching these.

[LWP777]

Good thread and, you're right, it certainly has become a big debate on this forum. I'm pretty sure everybody knows where I stand. Blow it up!

I don't disagree with you that our coach is incompetent and has no clue how to run this team and actually have an offense and set plays. Where I do disagree with you is that you are comparing our current group with one of the most intelligent teams in NBA history in our Kings almost 10 years ago. This current group is simply not capable of consistently making good decisions and playing solid basketball. We have no leaders and have an extremely low basketball IQ. Unfortunately, I don't see this changing much and that is why I vote to blow it up.

[andremiller07]

The only two players who atm are being used correctly are Tyreke (since moving to PG pretty much) and Chuck Hayes (hes good at the high post passing). The rest are not really being used well or being told what they have to do in particular Cousins (to many jumpers no post ups and hes not using that nice jump hook), in saying that we do have 4/5 players who would most likely not even make another NBA squad and another 2-3 that would be deep bench players and getting less mins than they already get. I just feel we don't have enough B level talent compared to any other decent team to be overally competitive.

[Mass]

It really hurts to see those videos... Good ol' days...

I agree with you BTW, but the problem is that in that team you had a very high baskeball IQ (Vlade, C-Webb, Peja, B-Jax, Bibby, Christie). Now, we probably have the dumbest team in the league.

[twslam07]

I don't think it is about our players being smart. What the OP is trying to say is that these are simples plays that our players can easily learn and run. It's not like the triangle offense where it relies on our players to read the defense and react to it. This is as simple as running the play and seeing what the defense gives you. In addition, the more experience our players have running plays like this, the more efficient they will become. They will begin identifying where the openings will be and what plays tend to work on what defenders they are going up against. Again, these aren't overly complicated plays they are running, but they are well constructed and effective plays.

[HereWeVivek]

God after watching those i dont even wanna watch another game of our pickup game one on one basketball this year. maybe Rainmaker can just upload a full Kings game from 10 years ago on game nights and we can watch that instead?


and btw. i agree with you, the team doesnt fit well, and theres a few terrible players on the squad, but they should be WAY more competitive than they have been and should probably be close to .500

[Bricklayer]

It really hurts to see those videos... Good ol' days...

I agree with you BTW, but the problem is that in that team you had a very high baskeball IQ (Vlade, C-Webb, Peja, B-Jax, Bibby, Christie). Now, we probably have the dumbest team in the league.

The thing is a team doesn't have to be anywhere NEAR as smart as those old Kings teams to win a helluva lot more games than they are now. I've long thought those old Kings teams were almost a problem for this fanbase. It raised expectations in strange ways. Those teams were an aberration, a far outlier in NBA history. And it was great to have them, but with such a sad history of the franchise they have become the only bright point to look back upon and so many Kings fans are constantly looking for this incredible aberration to remanifest as the route to victory. But that just doesn't happen twice. Nor does it have to.

[mac]

The thign is a team doesn't have to be anywhere NEAR as smart as those old Kings teams to win a helluva lot more games than they are now. I've logn thought those old Kings teams were almost a problem for this fanbase. it raised expectations in strange ways. Those teams were an aberration, a far outlier in NBA history. And it was great to have them, but wiht such a sad history fo the franchise they have become the only bright point to look back upon and so many Kings fans are constantly looking for this incredible aberration to remanifest as the route to victory. But that just doesn't happen twice. Nor does it have to.

Yeah we aren't even talking about WCFs here. Some of us aren't even expecting playoffs - just not bottom 5 in the league would be nice for a change.

[Hansel]

The biggest problem is the coaching staff, anyway we need a revolution in the roster as well. I'd like to see a roster with a plenty of european players, I don't wanna see players like Outlaw or Johnson anymore. I miss Vlade, Peja and Hedo days.

I'd would like to keep Cousins, Evans (at the right price), Hayes, Robinson and maybe Thornton. Flamethrower for the rest of the roster.

[UK_King]

I think everyone agrees the BBall IQ on this team is astonishingly low. We see that with out of bounds plays, plays down the stretch, decision making. And i don't for a minute think we'll see the players we have now executing in the half court the way we see above, i just don't think a combo of 5 guys have the smarts to run where they're supposed to without going blank and that is a major problem for Keith Smart.

That said, it's no excuse for Smart not to drill the players on a certain number of sets all day every day until they can run them in their sleep. I don't expect to see anything near the nous of a San Antonio or a Boston but i do expect to see the coach recognise the strengths of his players and figure out a couple of variations for each player.

We all know Smarts only play...



and to be honest they rarely even run this simple play right, it's supposed to allow the guard to curl into the middle of the lane but Thornton always just fades and shoots a long three. Cisco is the only guy who i see running this play properly and he had a bit of success with it the other night. In that case, let him play! I want to see the players that can execute on the floor, i couldn't care less if that means Cuz goes to the bench, I'm sick of seeing players with their "mean mug" on or their chins on their chests (MT/Cuz) And you know why they're "upset" it's because they don't have any points.

well sorry, the game of basketball is about winning games, not seeing your name at the top of the stat chart. So for me it's a mix, players with bafflingly low BBall IQ and terrible attitudes and a coach who seems to be completely unable to design the most basic of offensive sets.

[Tyndel]

This just illustrates that blowing up the team won't turn into wins. Just like our high draft picks haven't turned into wins just like our trades for vets haven't turned into wins. The problem isn't youth and it isn't intelligence. Its thinking this is normal that this is ok. Its thinking that every young team needs to figure it out on their own when all it takes is a good teacher to show them how to do it right. Our youth is fleeting every day and yet our guys aren't any closer to figuring it out....

[Chupacabra]

I stand heavily on the side of this calamity being the coaches fault. it can be argued that we have the worst coach in the league. the same cant be said for the roster.

[Jose]

I stand heavily on the side of this calamity being the coaches fault. it can be argued that we have the worst coach in the league. the same cant be said for the roster.

We also have had the cheapest coaches (or close to) in the NBA since Adelman's departure: Mussleman @$2.3M, Theus @$2M, Westphal @$1.5M, Smart @$1.5M

You get what you pay for.

[rhythmless]

The answer is yes.

We have terrible players who gripe and moan instead of running back on defense, we have players who don't make the right pass, we have players who jack up random shots, we have players who either don't have roles or don't care about them, and we have a redundancy of the same type of player (short scorer) and we have none of the type needed to win games (defensive minded spot up shooters and rebounding shotblockers). We have terrible players who do not put in the time/effort to fix their own shortcoming and become better individual players.

The coaching staff uses our players terribly, not establishing at least some semblance of hierarchy, jerking around young kids when they need to get a routine going, and not holding players accountable for their idiotic actions.

We have a terrible GM who seems to lack the ingenuity and work ethic he used to have, idly sitting around taking crap offers and salivating over the same player over and over, trying to screw the team by not only trading down for a worse player, but taking on additional terrible contracts.

We have terrible owners who will not pay for proper players, but overspend for bit players, underspend on size, seem to not realize the importance of paying for a Battier, and continually cheap out on the coach's contract.

We have a terrible arena that has no future and terrible attendance befitting our terrible team.

We also have terrible half time shows because the owners are cheap****s.

The only non-terrible facets of Kingsdom is Slamson and the dancers. There's also a couple of nice concession workers.

Did I leave anything out?

[pshn80]

A " brightside" look at things. It has taken several years to get Tyreke to ply a more balanced game rather than his original one- on- one game. I think we have the same problem with Cousins. Maybe with some more maturity he might see and perform more of the" Vlade" role. DeMarcus has along way to go to be able to play a 38 minute per game average AND perform in the way we are talking about.

[LWP777]

The answer is yes.

We have terrible players who gripe and moan instead of running back on defense, we have players who don't make the right pass, we have players who jack up random shots, we have players who either don't have roles or don't care about them, and we have a redundancy of the same type of player (short scorer) and we have none of the type needed to win games (defensive minded spot up shooters and rebounding shotblockers). We have terrible players who do not put in the time/effort to fix their own shortcoming and become better individual players.

The coaching staff uses our players terribly, not establishing at least some semblance of hierarchy, jerking around young kids when they need to get a routine going, and not holding players accountable for their idiotic actions.

We have a terrible GM who seems to lack the ingenuity and work ethic he used to have, idly sitting around taking crap offers and salivating over the same player over and over, trying to screw the team by not only trading down for a worse player, but taking on additional terrible contracts.

We have terrible owners who will not pay for proper players, but overspend for bit players, underspend on size, seem to not realize the importance of paying for a Battier, and continually cheap out on the coach's contract.

We have a terrible arena that has no future and terrible attendance befitting our terrible team.

We also have terrible half time shows because the owners are cheap****s.

The only non-terrible facets of Kingsdom is Slamson and the dancers. There's also a couple of nice concession workers.

Did I leave anything out?

Bill Walton? Is that you? Hilarious post! Can't really say I disagree with any of it. Sad.

[gunks]

I think the talent is there, the coaching is not.

It would be interesting to see what a real coach could do with a Reke/Cousins/MT core. But that will probably never happen. Reke is gone this offseason, Cousins the next, and we'll be stuck with the Maloofs and whatever poor kids we nab in the draft.

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

The biggest problem is the coaching staff, anyway we need a revolution in the roster as well. I'd like to see a roster with a plenty of european players, I don't wanna see players like Outlaw or Johnson anymore. I miss Vlade, Peja and Hedo days.

I'd would like to keep Cousins, Evans (at the right price), Hayes, Robinson and maybe Thornton. Flamethrower for the rest of the roster.

I still say keep Garcia, if he'll come back for the minimum, or something close to it: not just because he's the longest-tenured King (tied with Causewell for 7th-most games in a Kings uniform, in the Sacramento era), but also because he's a good locker room guy, and guys who can be banished to the end of the bench and not cause problems in the locker room are underrated. Especially on a losing team: sure, you can find guys happy to wave a towel when the team is winning, not so easy to do it when you've got a 25-win team.

[IfAt1st]

What a great, visual way to prove conclusively that most of this mess is on the doorstep of the COACHING.
It's as obvious as the game in front of our face - there is almost no coaching going on with these Kings now. They seldom run plays, where each person has a move and they work interconnectedly to get an open shot.

Players can play bad, or play good, if they buy into a team and a program. Their performance and effort is fickle.

What is not fickle or changeable is a coach's plays. Either the team is running plays, or they aren't - and since Smart hasn't been saying since day 1 that this team ISN'T running his plays, then we must conclude they are running the offense he's designed. (Which is why I conclude he's not qualified to coach an NBA team)

This team has NO offensive sets of any significance. NONE. They wander aimlessly on possession after possession, for entire quarters at a time without running something that looks coordinated. And it never seems practiced - the occasional play that is run seems entirely to be players making it up and reacting.

How many coaches in a row has run this same BS non-existent "offense"?
I think I remember Theus having the teams run some plays, and making an attempt at coaching. Ever since Theus, I simply can't remember any significant effort to have the Kings actually run plays on a consistent basis.

With bad coaching, most groups of players aren't going to spontaneously make up plays on the court and work together to get people open - they are going to run single-minded, selfish plays. And that's what we've seen, for YEARS now. Which is why I conclude, with zero exaggeration, that we effectively don't have any coaching right now! If a coach did NOTHING, and didn't run practices and sat on his hands on the sidelines doing nothing but subbing in/out players, you'd have an equitable offensive scheme with what we have right now - players going one-on-one all game long.

Until the Kings start running plays, I contend that the Kings organization is deliberately sabotaging the team through abhorrent lack of coaching. What else would explain the team playing one-on-one? We are not left with many rational options to explain this cluster-cluck.