New arena plan?

[VF21]

I'm watching Boston Legal on Ch. 10. They just had a news teaser. It said something about the Kings playing their first game tonight, blah, blah, blah and then said something about a new plan for building the arena and they even showed a quick video clip of a piece of undeveloped property.

They said details at 11...

Just putting it out there for whatever it's worth. I don't have a lot of faith in news teasers any more.

;)

[nebs]

Just saw this. In Folsom... I'd love it!

[VF21]

The report says Angelo Tsakapoulos is behind a new private funding plan. Interestingly enough, AT is looking at the thousands of acres he owns in the eastern part of the county, near Folsom...

The Folsom mayor says "it could work with proper planning."

The reporter says no one will talk on the record. He said a spokesman for AT was told to say absolutely nothing...

They also said there would be a lot of roadblocks to building it in Folsom and then touted tomorrow's Bee, saying there would be an in-depth story in the morning paper.

[VF21]

http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/13698828p-14541554c.html

Developer proposes another arena plan
By Mary Lynne Vellinga -- Bee Staff Writer
Published 7:57 pm PDT Tuesday, October 11, 2005
Local developer Angelo K. Tsakopoulos has been working for months on a new proposal to finance an arena for the Kings by developing land he owns in rural eastern Sacramento County, say several people who have been involved in the talks.

In addition, Tsakopoulos has approached area Indian tribes, flush with casino profits, to ask for their help in financing a new Kings facility.

The idea is not to build an arena in eastern Sacramento County, an area of rolling grassland and oak trees, but to provide money to build an arena elsewhere, most likely North Natomas, the sources said.

Some local leaders said Tsakopoulos' latest plan would be more difficult to pull off than his previous arena financing proposal, which collapsed in February. Nonetheless, they said, the idea seems to be the most viable thing going at the moment.

Howard Dickstein, an attorney who represents several Indian tribes, said Tuesday his clients are interested in helping keep the Kings in Sacramento. Details of their participation have not been worked out.

"We've been having discussions with the interested parties for a long time," said Dickstein, who represents the Rumsey Band of Wintun Indians, the United Auburn Indian Community and the Jackson Rancheria Band of Miwok Indians, all of whom operate casinos in the area.

"So far, nothing has come together," Dickstein added. "The interested parties appear to be Angelo, his company and the Sacramento Kings. I wish there were more interested parties, but there aren't."

The specifics of Tsakopoulos' latest proposal remain unknown. Steve Capps, spokesman for Tsakopoulos' AKT Development, said the developer would have no comment.

Kings co-owner Joe Maloof said he and his brother Gavin have been approached by "a couple of people who are in private business. Angelo's one of them. There are others.

"Angelo has been working very diligently on this, (but) if it doesn't work out with Angelo, it doesn't mean that the whole thing is in deep trouble. … We're still trying. Still trying," Joe Maloof said.

Tsakopoulos controls thousands of acres in eastern Sacramento County - south of Highway 50 and between Rancho Cordova and the El Dorado County line. Those briefed on his current proposal say the land he is seeking to develop lies outside the urban growth boundary in the county's general plan.

Much of this land recently was left as open space by the Sacramento Area Council of Governments when it crafted a long-term growth blueprint for the region.

Tsakopoulos also has discussed the possibility of including some of his western El Dorado County holdings in the deal, said those involved in the talks.

Some local leaders say they've told the developer that any proposal to open eastern Sacramento County to building would stir opposition from environmentalists and would face numerous logistical hurdles, including the lack of adequate roads, water and other infrastructure needed to serve new homes.

"It's outside the urban services boundary, there are huge infrastructure issues. … It's years away, at best," Sacramento County Supervisor Roger Dickinson said.

Mike McKeever, executive director of the Sacramento Area Council of Governments, said Tsakopoulos' previous arena proposal - although it failed - was more realistic.

It would have involved rezoning much of the remaining farmland in North Natomas. That land, unlike the east county, had been earmarked for eventual growth by the city and county.

The North Natomas proposal collapsed in February after several property owners, including the prominent Ose family, said they would not participate. As conceived by Tsakopoulos, the plan asked landowners to commit 20 percent of their profits from development to an arena.

McKeever said he had "some regrets" that the North Natomas proposal fell apart. He thinks it would take years to sort out the transportation, air quality and open space issues in the east county.

"I think Angelo has done the region a service by pursuing this, but I think this latest iteration is probably a 10 out of 10 in degree of difficulty, and maybe it's time to think of other ways that are not connected to land use to save the Kings," McKeever said.

The Kings owners have made it clear they're impatient for an arena deal. They haven't set a deadline, but they've repeatedly stressed that Arco is obsolete.

"We don't know what the timetable is," Maloof said Tuesday. "We've been at this for six years now, and (prior owner) Jim Thomas was at it for four years before us. Who knows what the timetable is? Something has to get done sooner or later, we all know that."

Some Kings fans, including the tribes represented by Dickstein, fear that the team will leave Sacramento if a state-of-the-art arena is not built. Sacramento's elected officials have been largely silent on the topic in recent months.

"The tribes, like a lot of residents in the area, are concerned that this could be the 11th hour and that the Kings will be forced to take other opportunities because of the lack of responsiveness from this community," Dickstein said.

The Bee's Mary Lynne Vellinga can be reached at (916) 321-1094 or mlvellinga@sacbee.com. Bee columnist Mark Kreidler contributed to this report.

[VF21]

Hey, wait a minute!

That was my idea. I proposed the ARCO Thunder Valley Casino and Arena over a year ago!!!

:D

[Bricklayer]

Perhpas I am a little biased since I have met the man, but sounds like Angelo Tsakopoulos might be the one power in Sacramento without his head thoroughly up his *** when it comes to keeping the Kings.

[Circa_1985_Fan]

yeah, I really dont see any of this plan actually even coming remotely close to fruition, unfortunately.

[PT Cruiser 9ROC]

Hey, wait a minute!

That was my idea. I proposed the ARCO Thunder Valley Casino and Arena over a year ago!!!

:D

Marv Albert: "And a spectacular day for basketball as we come to from the capitol city of Sacramento in the beautiful Cache Creek Center!" :eek:

*wishes there was a barfing emoticon*

But in seriousness, I do appreciate the sentiment in Tsakopoulos' plan as well as his diligence, but I'm pretty wary of the involvement of Indian tribes with vested interests in their casinos. What do they have to gain out of this? Would they be the ones getting the land that would be opened for development? I almost feel guilty that my love for the Kings seems to outweigh my appreciation as a citizen of Sacramento. But then I think about the nimrods on the City Council. And all is well in my little world once again.

[Bricklayer]

I almost feel guilty that my love for the Kings seems to outweigh my appreciation as a citizen of Sacramento.

Well, I would say if things keep on going the way they are that you will probably be relieved of your conflict within 3 years or so on the outside. And while I really should not care from 3000 miles away, the Sacramento connection is why I first became a Kings fan and has to some degree kept it alive despite numerous geographical shifts. Still home base for the family. I/when they leave, not sure I will be into them enough to moderate a board for the Kansas City Kings.

[Evenstar]

sweet!

[Purple Reign]

Hey, wait a minute!

That was my idea. I proposed the ARCO Thunder Valley Casino and Arena over a year ago!!!

:D

NOOOOOO!!!!!! I hate to be selfish here. But I live in doggone Elk Grove!!!! That is a long way from me. And I am a Monarchs supporter that goes to 12-15 games a summer. Oh well, anything to keep them here.:o

[G_M]

Perhpas I am a little biased since I have met the man, but sounds like Angelo Tsakopoulos might be the one power in Sacramento without his head thoroughly up his *** when it comes to keeping the Kings.

If a deal is to be had it will most certainly have to exclude dealing with the city of Sacramento. So, hopefully AT can pull together the right mix to get this done! If this does not work out I just don't see anything getting done.

[PFFFT!!]

Wouldn't make sense to build in Folsom since the Kings represent Sacramento CITY and not the county. North Natomas is part of the city of Sacramento.

[SkinnerBox]

Folsom, WOOOOOO!

[GreenKing]

Tease post. It's going to flounder once this proposal asks for tax dollars. The Kings still owe 50+ million dollars in a loan from the city of Sacramento.

At least if the arena is built Sacramentans can look forward to ticket prices rising every year for the next 20 years.

[Diabeticwonder]

The plan is not to build the arena in Folsom, but to use that land out there to help raise money to build a new arena most likely in North Natomas.

[kingsfan916]

As long as its in Sacramento i am cool!

[DocHolliday]

My dad still has one of the best ideas for private funding. Southwest Airlines. Their headquarters are right here in Sacramento. Southwest Airlines Arena anybody? But, then you still need to find somewhere to build it, and I'm sure Southwest couldn't be the only contributor.

[Circa_1985_Fan]

My dad still has one of the best ideas for private funding. Southwest Airlines. Their headquarters are right here in Sacramento. Southwest Airlines Arena anybody? But, then you still need to find somewhere to build it, and I'm sure Southwest couldn't be the only contributor.
Well, actually the Southwest headquarters are in Dallas. And the selling of the naming rights arent enought to build an arena...they usually are in the neighborhood of about $10million tops for naming rights for a sporting venue. The city and owners still have to front most of the bill. We're at square one still of this process, which I dont see moving on to square two any time soon, if ever.:(

[kennadog]

Actually Pepsi paid $68 million for naming rights in Denver. Problem is, Sacramento does not have a strong corporate base. This limits quite a bit the revenune they can get from naming rights and luxury boxes.

[kingsfan916]

Wouldn't make sense to build in Folsom since the Kings represent Sacramento CITY and not the county. North Natomas is part of the city of Sacramento.
It will be much better than Vegas

[quick dog]

AT is famous in this region for "working" local governments. He would like to build thousands of new houses in that rural area between White Rock Road and Highway 50. I'll bet he sees some leverage-potential with the public interest in a new arena. I wonder how the eminent bursting of the housing bubble will impact his plan to build thousands of new houses in the eastern county. Highway 50 is already like a Los Angeles freeway. The famous Serano development has been developed into a very pricey surburban ghetto; over-crowded and ugly.

Despite my desire to see the Kings stay in Sacramento, we need more houses up here like a hole in the head.

[kennadog]

The comments are accurate. It would likely take years to get approval for any development out there, assuming its even possible. Right now, I can't imagine how his land out there can be leveraged to help the arena deal. (Is he thinking of selling some of the land to the city or county for preservation and using the proceeds to build the arena? Or agreeing to give the land to the city for public purposes if they will, in return, pony up a big contribution toward the arena? My wild musings only.) I really am trying to imagine what could be done that would help in the near term. Getting any of that area approved for development in a realistic timeframe is unimaginable. The environmental impact reports, the endless public hearings, the likely lawsuits.....

At least the land in the Natomas area is already planned for future development and the idea was only to speed up the process.

AT paid for the the complete remodeling of Sac State's track facility, so they could get and try to keep the Olympic Track and Field trials and other big track and field events. He's probably the biggest mover and shaker in the region, for sure. Actually, in much of the State. He is a likely person to try and figure this out, but he is looking out for what he can get out of it.

Actually Quickdog, what the Sacramento region needs is more "affordable" housing being built anywhere, not more "unaffordable without making a deal with the devil" housing. True in most of California. And better planning, but most people won't accept "different" housing from what they're used to. Good planning losses out to developer money and influence almost everytime.

[Warhawk]

Actually Quickdog, what the Sacramento region needs is more "affordable" housing being built anywhere, not more "unaffordable without making a deal with the devil" housing. True in most of California. And better planning, but most people won't accept "different" housing from what they're used to. Good planning losses out to developer money and influence almost everytime.

Everyone is a big proponent of affordable housing until it is plunked down next to your house and maket values in the area plummet.... :(

The other big problems are transportation and lawsuits. You need to have mass transit nearby because of the large number of people in a small area - roads get even more impacted than with "conventional" housing. Also, condo units, for example, are rarely built anymore because of the numbers and types of lawsuits filed by the buyers, higher and more expensive than traditional homes.

[kennadog]

I could show you "affordable" housing you would never guess is affordable and I would not mind living in at all. Also, there have been at multiple studies done that debunk the "lowers property values" myth. It's off topic so this will be it (promise VF21 and Brick), but here's some pics of projects my Department has helped finance (and a report).....

http://www.hcd.ca.gov/feature/murphyranch.html (http://www.hcd.ca.gov/feature/murphyranch.html)

http://www.hcd.ca.gov/feature/JingleTown.html (http://www.hcd.ca.gov/feature/JingleTown.html)

http://www.hcd.ca.gov/feature/GlenBerry.html (http://www.hcd.ca.gov/feature/GlenBerry.html)

http://www.hcd.ca.gov/feature/Sycamore_Homes.html (http://www.hcd.ca.gov/feature/Sycamore_Homes.html)

http://www.hcd.ca.gov/feature/views.html (http://www.hcd.ca.gov/feature/views.html)

http://www.hcd.ca.gov/hpd/mythsnfacts.pdf (http://www.hcd.ca.gov/hpd/mythsnfacts.pdf)

[SkinnerBox]

Has anyone pointed out how stupid it would be for the City of Sacramento to just let a professional sports franchise (and a good one at that) just slip away? Or is there something I'm missing?

[Kingsgurl]

A couple hundred times or so:D Don't get me started;)

[kennadog]

I found this article earlier today, which was written in 2001. I found it to be one of the most balanced looks at public money and stadiums/arenas and the value of a major league sports franchise to a city. The part I like best it that it tries to quantify the value of adding to the "quality-of-life" of a city. And it goes on to state that this is rarely discussed in reports on deals. But it certainly explains something that I have found hard to explain in arena discussions, because it is such an intangible.

It is interesting that one of the conclusions is that most cities value a major league sports franchise much more after they've had one and lost it (esp football). And some cities spend a whole lot more money getting another team than it would have cost them to keep the first team. I'm afraid that is what could happen here. It is hugely long so I won't paste it here.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3699/is_200101/ai_n8942029

[Warhawk]

I could show you "affordable" housing you would never guess is affordable and I would not mind living in at all. Also, there have been at multiple studies done that debunk the "lowers property values" myth. It's off topic so this will be it (promise VF21 and Brick), but here's some pics of projects my Department has helped finance (and a report).....

http://www.hcd.ca.gov/feature/murphyranch.html (http://www.hcd.ca.gov/feature/murphyranch.html)

http://www.hcd.ca.gov/feature/JingleTown.html (http://www.hcd.ca.gov/feature/JingleTown.html)

http://www.hcd.ca.gov/feature/GlenBerry.html (http://www.hcd.ca.gov/feature/GlenBerry.html)

http://www.hcd.ca.gov/feature/Sycamore_Homes.html (http://www.hcd.ca.gov/feature/Sycamore_Homes.html)

http://www.hcd.ca.gov/feature/views.html (http://www.hcd.ca.gov/feature/views.html)

http://www.hcd.ca.gov/hpd/mythsnfacts.pdf (http://www.hcd.ca.gov/hpd/mythsnfacts.pdf)

Off topic, I know, I know....

Some of those look great. Unfortunately, most "affordable housing" is still duplex-looking duplexes and traditional condo-type construction....

When my wife and I were house shopping in 2001, homes adjacent to apartment complexes, etc., were cheaper than identical homes a few blocks away. I don't care what all the "studies" say, I know what I see when looking at homes and prices in the real world.

I am not against affordable housing - I am just against government deciding that they are going to place it where it isn't wanted by the locals. If they don't want it there, and the land wasn't originally zoned for it, it shouldn't go in.

[hoopsfan]

- I am just against government deciding that they are going to place it where it isn't wanted by the locals.

Then it won't go anywhere.

[kennadog]

Then it won't go anywhere.Bingo...we have a winner! And believe me, citizens have input ad nauseum. You can't put in a speed bump without endless public hearings and public comment periods. Which is why any public involvement in an arena needs to get going. It will be a long process, even once they think they have a potentially viable plan. And time is money. The arena gets more expensive to build every day.

[Bricklayer]

Then it won't go anywhere.

That being the issue. Always the issue. Everybody thinks everything's a good idea, but just not near them. Collective action problem. So nothng gets done.

There was a report on yahoo last week that Californians have just about closed down the housing market now -- in order to afford the average house in California today, a family would need a median income of $132,000. That's just stupid.

Either 1) people need to stop having kids; or 2) more affordable houses have to be built. Otherwise that whole American dream thing of owning a home is going to rapidly go the way of the dodo. Top 25% will have houses, everybody else = tough luck.

To make that Kings related, the players might be the last people in Nor Cal able to afford a home (assuming of course they have any of their millions left after having to buy a sportscoat). :)

[kennadog]

CA is one of the top most expensive housing markets in the world. For some reason parts of Australia are right up there.

A couple earning about $42,000 in LA County is "low-income." (They are earning about $11.00/hr) Something like $55,000 is median. Incidentally, the FHA loan program is one of the oldest and most successful "affordable" housing progams. I ton of homeowners have had at least one of those. I won't beat it to death here. There are a lot of programs for people up to 120% of median income, including help to buy a first home. If anybody would like info on possiblities they can send me a PM. I'll just consider it part of my civil service.:D

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Actually Pepsi paid $68 million for naming rights in Denver. Problem is, Sacramento does not have a strong corporate base. This limits quite a bit the revenune they can get from naming rights and luxury boxes.
Exactly...but even if they did get more than the est., there would still be another at least $300million to front.

[Rockin' in the Free World]

Anybody know the details of what Fresno did to get their arena? That SaveMart center is pretty nice for a city with no major lague franchises and a population nowhere near that of the "Greater Sacramento Area". If I was the Maloofs I would look at that and get pretty heated. People in Fresno will build an arena for a minor league hockey team some rock shows but the most rabid fan base in the NBA can't seem to get behind an Arena proposal? Slap me if I'm outta line but I'll send in tax money to Sacramento to help out and I don't even live there!

[kennadog]

Yeah it bugs me that Fresno managed to build a fairly nice arena and Sac can't get it going. Of course, Sac couldn't even build a minor league baseball park, so little ol' West Sac across the river built a really nice one. However, for general info, the city of Fresno has a higher population than the city of Sacramento. That's because the geographical boundaries of Fresno include a much bigger area. the metropolitan area of Sacramento is more populous, but that's also part of the problem.

The part of that population that lives within the city boundaries is relatively small. This is rather odd compared to a lot of other cities. I live in "Sacramento," but am in the unincorporated area. Most of the people in the metropolitan area will never get a chance to have voice in any city plan. That's why this really needs to be a regional thing. But every city/county surrounding Sacramento wants to know what's in it for them.

When I hear politicians say that, I always want to know if they think no one in their area attends any events at Arco? After all, basketball is only about 25% of the events that take place at Arco annually.

[quick dog]

AT paid for the the complete remodeling of Sac State's track facility, so they could get and try to keep the Olympic Track and Field trials and other big track and field events. He's probably the biggest mover and shaker in the region, for sure. Actually, in much of the State. He is a likely person to try and figure this out, but he is looking out for what he can get out of it.

You are getting your rich Greek land developers confused. Alex G. (maybe Art) Spanos was the guy who has funded Sacramento's Olympic Track and Field aspirations. Spanos is a financial around here and in Stockton.

AT may be OK, but he isn't in the same League as Spanos.

[quick dog]

That being the issue. Always the issue. Everybody thinks everything's a good idea, but just not near them. Collective action problem. So nothng gets done.

There was a report on yahoo last week that Californians have just about closed down the housing market now -- in order to afford the average house in California today, a family would need a median income of $132,000. That's just stupid.

Either 1) people need to stop having kids; or 2) more affordable houses have to be built. Otherwise that whole American dream thing of owning a home is going to rapidly go the way of the dodo. Top 25% will have houses, everybody else = tough luck.

To make that Kings related, the players might be the last people in Nor Cal able to afford a home (assuming of course they have any of their millions left after having to buy a sportscoat). :)

An annual family income of $132,000 won't allow a responsible person to buy a house in California anymore. The median-home-price in California is now over $500K. That equates to a monthly house payment of about $5K. Forget about a down-payment, insurance, utilities, and property taxes.

With California sales and income taxes, property tax, federal income tax, Social Security taxes, and dozens of others fees and taxes, a $135K annual income is reduced by at least one third.

The property tax on a $500K house is more than $400/month. Insurance, maintenance, vehicles, professional fees, interest-only loans, yada, yada, yada.

Not to worry. This house of cards, no pun intended, will surely come down within the next 15 months. I suspect that fancy house prices will drop by 25 to 30 percent. I suspect that 10,000 new California "home-owners" will lose their houses due to their inability to make these pubitive payments.

[VF21]

Just out of curiousity, what is the square footage of those median houses? It seems like first-time home buyers are looking at incredibly large houses, especially compared to what I remember being the norm back in the cave dwelling days...

[kennadog]

You are getting your rich Greek land developers confused. Alex G. (maybe Art) Spanos was the guy who has funded Sacramento's Olympic Track and Field aspirations. Spanos is a financial around here and in Stockton.

AT may be OK, but he isn't in the same League as Spanos.Oops, my bad...you are absolutely correct! (I'm getting to where I can claim old age as an excuse.)

VF21: The homes in the pictures above are usually quite modest in size. But you are right that most 1st time homebuyers think they need huge houses. My first house was about 980 square feet and most of my friends wouldn't have bothered to look at it. And yet, it was in a subdivision built to be first homes for vets and their families after WWII.

People think they need 2000 sq ft, tile/granite, fireplaces, giant master suites, etc. But developers were also convincing people they needed it. I can't cite all the numbers, but awhile back I read an article that said developers had to build bigger and bigger houses to reap the same profit. So they had to convince buyers that this was what they wanted/needed.

I'm already seeing a big slow down in sales of top end houses in Sac. Prices will come down or at least flatten out. However, not enough to solve our wages houses gap. in CA, I fear. But many loans people have gotten will bite them in the end, sorry to say.

Incidentally, comparing arena costs in Sac to say San Antonio or Memphis is ridiculous. The land costs here just make the costs exponentially larger and construction costs are also considerably higher here. Its awful.:(

[Warhawk]

Oops, my bad...you are absolutely correct! (I'm getting to where I can claim old age as an excuse.)

VF21: The homes in the pictures above are usually quite modest in size. But you are right that most 1st time homebuyers think they need huge houses. My first house was about 980 square feet and most of my friends wouldn't have bothered to look at it. And yet, it was in a subdivision built to be first homes for vets and their families after WWII.

People think they need 2000 sq ft, tile/granite, fireplaces, giant master suites, etc. But developers were also convincing people they needed it. I can't cite all the numbers, but awhile back I read an article that said developers had to build bigger and bigger houses to reap the same profit. So they had to convince buyers that this was what they wanted/needed.

I'm already seeing a big slow down in sales of top end houses in Sac. Prices will come down or at least flatten out. However, not enough to solve our wages houses gap. in CA, I fear. But many loans people have gotten will bite them in the end, sorry to say.

Incidentally, comparing arena costs in Sac to say San Antonio or Memphis is ridiculous. The land costs here just make the costs exponentially larger and construction costs are also considerably higher here. Its awful.:(

You also have to consider things like differing environmental review requirements/processes, construction costs, etc, etc.

[BigWaxer]

What goes up must come down and I suspect we are just starting to see some weakness in the housing. This area still has a very good economy and strong job market/outlook which should help keep homes (for now) nice and high.

As KD stated these interest only,arm's and 110% financing should start to show there ugly head in about a year or 2. It will be interesting to see what happens to the market then. This is pretty much the only way people can afford a home without a down payment or making 150k a year.

Since land/development seems to be the major source of funds for the Arena I wonder if they are taking into account that the market may / does change. I wonder how that will affect the overall plan in the end. If we see a decline in the Sacto area it will be a lot harder to fund this with land sales.

I will go on the record now... I will not be a KINGS fan if they are in another city outside of the Nocal area.

[VF21]

The news last night reported there were people from Sacramento in Indianapolis yesterday, touring Conseco Field House. They spoke about the great design of the arena, how much it now means to the area, etc.

I would NOT have any problem whatsoever if our new arena was modeled after Conseco!

I am going to view this as a reason to be cautiously optimistic.

[hoopsfan]

Haven't they made like 3 trips to Conseco?? I think Heather fargo must love it there..she goes there often enough.

[VF21]

Maybe we could work a deal, build the new arena AND trade mayors?

;)

[kennadog]

Your right Warhawk. CA has pretty stringent environmental review procedures. And people who don't want something built for any resaon, know this is a place they can slow down or stop it, especially with lawsuits.

If we traded mayors, we could probably get an arena! :p Everybody raves about Conseco. Maybe some of us should volunteer to go there, expenses paid of course, and see it on behalf of Kings fans. (hand raised) :D Well, I'm going to be encouraged that there is at least SOME discussion going on. (I'm grasping at straws.)

I'm not an expert on city government structures, but different cities have different systems. Maybe a little of our problem here is the type of governing system we have? I'm just miffed that I would never have a chance to vote on a city arena deal, because I'm outside the city limits. :( The population of the City (approx 400,000) is only 20% of the 6 county region (2,000,000 in 2000).

Okay, checked. Our City government actually leaves the mayor with no more power than each of the other 8 city council members. And the City Manager (hired by the council) actually has a great deal of say in policy development.

[quick dog]

Elected local government officials and County planners have less control than you might think over construction and development in various areas of California.

El Dorado County went more than a decade without a proper County General Plan. The County and everyone wanting to build things around here have been largely stifled by an unending series of coordinated lawsuits since 1996. It took a referendum by the public this year to break the legal roadblocks.

Environmental political action committees and their government bureaucracy conspirators have been able to stop many projects that would have benefited the public. In my opinion, it's a corrupt system. I am afraid that we may be facing this sort of situation with a new arena.

[love_them_kings]

You also have to consider things like differing environmental review requirements/processes, construction costs, etc, etc.

yeah, and CA has incredibly high construction costs -- gotta figure in that worker's comp $$$ and all the liability insurance... and that's before you even start to think about the environmental stuff..

[kennadog]

Oh I know that $$$ speaks in development, louder than anything else. And you would not believe that roadblocks one of my affordable homebuyer projects went through. Would curl your hair. As for bureaucracy...they will go with the direction of the political winds.

And I hate to say it, but its not so much the government bureaucrats that are the problem as the fact that the bosses of those bureaucrats are political appointees who know on which side their bread is buttered. Civil servants can do a good job and the right thing and be overturned. Years of work can be dumped in the trash by one appointee.

On the other hand, it may be developer political pull that gets an arena done here. The question is, what are they going to get in return for it? Or Sacramento just may not have the power players that can get this done (big corporations). I am praying that I'm wrong.

[Bricklayer]

Maybe some good news finally?

Wasn't sure where to post this, and it needs some explantion I think. Was in the Sacramento Bee this morning. When the series of arena proposals collapsed a year ago, one of the things that was discussed at that time was that there was a MAJOR personality conflict between Bob Thomas, the Sacramento city manager, and John Thomas, the Kings President and the Maloofs' designated point man on the arena issue.

Well, Bob is out:

http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/local_government/story/13834812p-14675339c.html

Thomas will leave job at year's end

City manager jokes, grows emotional over decision after pressure from council.

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Story appeared on Page A1 (http://www.sacbee.com/content/print_edition/#MAIN NEWS) of The Bee

In an emotional announcement Tuesday night, Sacramento City Manager Bob Thomas said he will retire Dec. 31, signaling an abrupt departure after nearly seven years as the city's top administrator.


Sometimes cracking jokes and occasionally near tears, Thomas said he was proud to be leaving the city in great financial shape and on the verge of a downtown renaissance.

"There's always tension between a city manager and the council," Thomas said. "But you can't dwell on these tensions. The issue that has been worked out is in the best interest of the city." OAS_AD('Button20');

http://ads.sacbee.com/RealMedia/ads/adstream_lx.ads/www.sacbee.com/content/politics/local_government/1357618167/Button20/Sacbee/sacarts_300_sros_oct_4/sacarts_300x250_gallery.html/31383061376130303431343965323130?_RM_EMPTY_Flanked by a City Council that had pressured him to step down, Thomas' usual businesslike demeanor was gone as he faced the media, city workers and community leaders at a City Hall news conference.


He made light of the tensions, quipping that he first grew concerned when the council discussed getting him a get-well card after a recent kidney stone surgery: "Three were in favor, three were opposed and three abstained."

As he ended the news conference by saying that he looked forward to spending more time with his family and "preparing for my next career," onlookers gave Thomas a standing ovation, some with tears in their eyes.
Afterward, council members said it will be necessary to appoint an interim city manager as Sacramento launches a nationwide search for Thomas' replacement.

Given the short time frame and the proximity to the holidays, Councilman Steve Cohn said it was likely that the interim city manager would come from the city's management ranks.

One of the possibilities is a relative newcomer from Portland, Ore. Ray Kerridge, an assistant city manager who oversees several departments including planning, building and economic development, has won the confidence of the council and been popular with the development and business community because of his efforts to streamline the city's cumbersome building process.

Kerridge last week sidestepped questions about whether he would be interested in the job, saying he has kept his focus on his current responsibilities.

The announcement wrapped up a bizarre week of behind-the-scenes political machinations over Thomas' future. Last week, council members said old wounds, personality clashes and a recent controversial appointment spurred a majority of the council to conclude that Thomas should retire.

Mayor Heather Fargo, who has long been at odds with the city manager, on Tuesday praised his fiscal leadership and his push for revitalization of downtown and the waterfront.

Fargo was at times flustered, calling Thomas the "city attorney" at least twice. She said the decision for Thomas to leave was amicable and rumors of tensions were untrue.

Sitting in the audience was former mayor and city councilman Jimmie Yee. After the public airing of tensions, Yee said the council had little choice but to put on a united front.

"They had to put on their happy face," Yee said. "But this is a huge loss to the city."

Thomas' departure also poses sticky practical problems for the city. It is looking at launching a $70 million public improvement campaign to be paid for with bond funds. And the process of drafting next year's budget is ready to begin.

A year ago, Thomas said he and other other top managers would be leaving city government within the next three years. When he first brought up the subject last week after learning about rumors that he would be fired, Thomas talked about a phased-in retirement plan over a period of months.

But Cohn said Tuesday night it was clear from recent events that Thomas decided he had to make a clean break by the end of this year - "to get things behind him."

The city did not release details of Thomas' retirement package. Thomas, 56, has worked in government - including a stint as Sacramento County executive - for 34 years. He's also served in the California National Guard for 34 years and now holds the rank of colonel.

His resignation brought to a close a tumultuous week of backroom negotiations in City Hall that first surfaced Nov. 1, when rumors spread that Thomas was being fired.

But Thomas and Mayor Fargo squelched the rumors that evening, telling The Bee they weren't true. Still, Thomas brought up the subject of his retirement, and the next day seemed to back off his statement.

Fargo and other council member then explained that they had intended to discuss personnel issues involving charter - high-ranking - city officers including Thomas on Nov. 1, but the item had not been given proper legal notice.

That meeting was moved to Tuesday. In addition, Fargo and Councilmen Robbie Waters and Rob Fong said Thomas had told them he would be announcing his retirement at the next closed-door session with the full council.

At his news conference, Thomas said he was most proud of his financial stewardship of the city. Under his direction, the city had a balanced budget when other cities and counties were in financial straits.

He pointed to the city's investment during his tenure, including building three fire stations, two libraries, and a 911 communication center. The restoration of historic City Hall and an addition of an adjoining administrative building were highlights, he said.

"It's not about the building, it's about a symbol of the future of Sacramento," Thomas said.

Fargo said the city wishes Thomas well and "hopes to call on him occasionally" to help.

Cohn was the only other council member to speak during the news conference.
"It's been an honor for me to serve with this manager," Cohn said. "He is a top-notch guy."


I know nothing about the man, nor whether the purported conflict was his fault or John's, or even if it was true. But it seemed like this might have a chance to be a significant under the radar event in the arena quest, and starved for good news as we are...who knows?

[kingsfan916]

AS long as it is in Sacramento. I am cool

[VF21]

Maybe some good news finally?

Wasn't sure where to post this, and it needs some explantion I think. Was in the Sacramento Bee this morning. When the series of arena proposals collapsed a year ago, one of the things that was discussed at that time was that there was a MAJOR personality conflict between Bob Thomas, the Sacramento city manager, and John Thomas, the Kings President and the Maloofs' designated point man on the arena issue.

Well, Bob is out:

http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/local_government/story/13834812p-14675339c.html

I know nothing about the man, nor whether the purported conflict was his fault or John's, or even if it was true. But it seemed like this might have a chance to be a significant under the radar event in the arena quest, and starved for good news as we are...who knows?

One can only hope...

[JB_kings]

I think Thomas was the guy that undercut the proposed arena in the railyards. The council had plans and concept drawings put together with the arena being a key piece of the railyard. Then Thomas went off and cut a deal with Millinea Associates that excluded the arena. The problem as Millinea saw it was that it was more profitable for them to develop the land without the arena. Well how does this happen that there was a gap between what the council had expected and the final deal that Thomas cut? I'll let you guys decide how one man with power goes against a plan that had gone through a number of planning steps...