Andrei Kirilenko - Not Worth A Handsome Salary?

[tbear03]

Jazz, Andrei talks 'far apart'
http://deseretnews.com/i/xclear.gif
Team, Kirilenko's agent disagree on forward's value

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595098139,00.html


By Tim Buckley (http://deseretnews.com/dn/staff/card/1,1228,250,00.html)
Deseret Morning News

Contract extension negotiations between the Jazz and the agent for All-Star Andrei Kirilenko have taken a turn for the worse.

"We're far apart on what we both see his value as being, and I'm not optimistic at the moment," said agent Marc Fleisher, who left with no deal in hand after coming to Salt Lake City for a face-to-face meeting with Jazz basketball operations senior vice president Kevin O'Connor.

"We met (Tuesday) night," Fleisher added Wednesday afternoon, "and I think there's a big disparity in what we see as Andrei's value."

The deadline for agreeing to an extension before this season is Oct. 31, and Fleisher said it is possible things can change before then.

But Kirilenko's side is standing firm on its demand for Pau Gasol money, meaning an extension just like the six-year, roughly $86 million deal Memphis recently gave to its big man from Spain.

The Jazz apparently are offering much less to their forward from Russia — perhaps even less than $76 million over six seasons that, as of last week, they were believed to be willing to pay.

"I think we believe Andrei is in the same class as Pau Gasol," said Fleisher, who got deals done with O'Connor for both big man Mehmet Okur (six years, $50 million) and shooting guard Gordan Giricek (four years, $16 million) this past summer.

"In fact, Andrei was selected over Pau Gasol as an All-Star (last season)," Fleisher added. "And the Jazz don't see it that way."

O'Connor did not return phone messages left Wednesday.

It should come as no great surprise that Kirilenko's camp is using the Gasol deal as a gauge, since that is a max-money rookie-contract extension under terms of the current collective bargaining agreement between the NBA and its players association.

This season, Kirilenko will earn $1.67 million — a far cry from what's in store.
"We believe that the market value for Andrei has been determined apart from us — meaning we didn't determine it, and nor did the Jazz," said Fleisher, who planned to return to his Connecticut office to deal with other client issues.

"It's been determined for us, and we believe, and most people around the league feel, that Andrei is deserving of the sort of money Gasol got."

Fleisher said he and Kirilenko are adamant about that, and that they're willing to forgo the financial security that comes with signing an extension now in order to enter the NBA's free-agency market as a restricted free agent season.

There are pros and cons for both sides if that were to happen, but Fleisher suggested that is what will happen if that is what it takes for Kirilenko to be adequately compensated.

"Absolutely," Fleisher said.

"Andrei would like to get something done now," he added, "but, if not now, we believe there are a lot of teams out there that will believe his market value is as we see it."

Even if another team were to sign Kirilenko to an offer sheet next summer, the Jazz would have the opportunity to match.

They'd have to do so, however, under terms established by another franchise — meaning the possibility of dealing with a heavily front-loaded contract that can be avoided by coming to terms now.

Kirilenko, for his part, has been relatively mum on the issue.

The 23-year-old said last week he was "a little unhappy" that Gasol's extension was done before training camp opened and his was not, but he later expressed hope that a deal would be struck.

Jazz owner Larry H. Miller, too, has said the team would like to extend Kirilenko this month — and that it "makes sense for both sides."

Miller, though, also said it would require a degree of compromise from both sides to reach an accord.

Fleisher, seemingly unwilling to budge, isn't buying it.

"I read where Larry said (last week) he is '90 percent sure' this is gonna get done," the agent said. "I'm nowhere near that optimistic."

E-mail: tbuckley@desnews.com (tbuckley@desnews.com)


I thought for sure this guy would be wrapped up quickly and efficiently by the Jazz.... why are they trying to gamble with him?

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Kirilenko should "Boozer" them next season and sign with the Cavaliers. Hilarity ensues.

[C Diddy]

I don't think Kirilenko is worth Gasol money but I don't think Gasol is worth Gasol money either. I'd say 5 years and 50mill should be a decent offer for Kirilenko. He has to prove it that he can do those things as a starter year after year before they should give him the max. Let's see how he does this season when the Jazz have more options. Boozer, Okur, and a healthy Harpring should cut into Kirilenko's stats. Not to mention Arroyo is getting better and better. The Jazz are poised for a big year. Lets see where Kirilenko fits in before extending him to a max deal.

[vladetomiller]

The way guys have been getting paid in the nba, AK deserves it. I have always admired his play on both ends of the court and he has improved every year

[bibbyweb]

I think that it would be really bad setback for the Jazz, if they were to lose AK.
He wouldnt be a too bad for the Kings could get him, if Peja doesn't stay back with us.

[LPKingsFan]

I hope the Jazz make him angry, he demands a trade, and we can swap him and a trade exception for Peja.

[JSin]

I doubt AK will be going anywhere anytime soon.

[HndsmCelt]

One season under Jerry Sloan and Pedja will be demanding a trade BACK to Sac.

[4cwebb]

I don't think Kirilenko is worth Gasol money but I don't think Gasol is worth Gasol money either. I'd say 5 years and 50mill should be a decent offer for Kirilenko. He has to prove it that he can do those things as a starter year after year before they should give him the max. Let's see how he does this season when the Jazz have more options. Boozer, Okur, and a healthy Harpring should cut into Kirilenko's stats. Not to mention Arroyo is getting better and better. The Jazz are poised for a big year. Lets see where Kirilenko fits in before extending him to a max deal.
The problem is that the Jazz went out and gave pretty big money to two players in Boozer and Okur who haven't proven themselves anymore than Kirilenko to this point. Maybe the Jazz now feel that AK-47 isn't a necessary piece to their success with Boozer and Okur on board.

[C Diddy]

The problem is that the Jazz went out and gave pretty big money to two players in Boozer and Okur who haven't proven themselves anymore than Kirilenko to this point. Maybe the Jazz now feel that AK-47 isn't a necessary piece to their success with Boozer and Okur on board.
Interesting take, I haven't really looked at it from that standpoint before. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that Okur and Boozer are both PF/C and AK47 is more of a SF. It seems this offseason was the year for all PF/C to make a lot more then they should. Just speculation at this point. AK47 is definitely talented and deserves more then the 1.6mill he is making this year. Where do the Jazz stand on salary cap at the moment and how will they look in the offseason considering they dont add/trade any players? Anyone have the time to look that stuff up?

[4cwebb]

Interesting take, I haven't really looked at it from that standpoint before. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that Okur and Boozer are both PF/C and AK47 is more of a SF. It seems this offseason was the year for all PF/C to make a lot more then they should. Just speculation at this point. AK47 is definitely talented and deserves more then the 1.6mill he is making this year. Where do the Jazz stand on salary cap at the moment and how will they look in the offseason considering they dont add/trade any players? Anyone have the time to look that stuff up?
I don't have the information at my fingertips, but my recollection is that the Jazz didn't use up all of their cap room this summer. Still, it's one thing to have two guys locked into the long-term high-dollar deals, and another to have three. Plus, while I would put AK-47 at the head of the frontcourt players on the jazz roster, the other two guys have deals first, so I'm sure the Jazz would like to make sure AK-47 plays out this year as well as he did last year.

[HndsmCelt]

Bear in mind that AK-47 is more desirealbe as trade bait witha lower contract. That does not mean that the Jazz plan to pedal him, but given the lenth of his current contract why cut off your options?

[Mike B]

As the dude is a 23 year old all-star, and is already one of the most complete players in the league, I have a hard time understanding Utah. While true that it is easier to aquire a SF as opposed to a good big man, Kirilenko is exceptional. He is an amazing combination of positive attributes and is a unique player. I'd pay him FAR more than I'd pay Boozer.

[Bricklayer]

All I can think is that they are saying that Kirilenko is more Pippen than Jordan and can't carry a team as its primary offensive weapon. But using up all your money on Carlos Boozer and Mehmet Okur and not having enough to pay Kirilenko is just ridiculous.

[Kev.in]

Wow, that's a real slap in the face. Kirilnenko isn't in the same class as Gasol, he's in a class above that. I don't even know why they'd enter into negotiations if they were going to try and hustle him like that. I think they might not even want to do a deal right now. Maybe they'd rather wait until next summer to see what kind of offers he gets, hoping the biggest offer sheet he'll see will be lower than what he's asking for right now.

[Mike B]

Brick - good take, and I think you are correct.

Now - how many GMs wouldn't pay BIG money to have a 23 year old Scotty Pippen?

The Jazz are insane for paying Okur or Boozer the money they did. Kirilenko should have been their TOP priority.

[mcsluggo]

A 23 year old Pippin without the personality flaws and hang-ups...

This is an IDIOTIC place to be trying to game. This is like spitting in the wind or pulling on superman's cape.

I don't think there are more than 5 players in the league that would cause even the slightest bit of hesitation for ANY gm in the league to consider trading for AK. You DO NOT let him get away.

[VF21]

Slightly off-topic and forgive me if it's already been answered, but who are Fleisher's other clients? Why does his name sound so familiar?

[Bricklayer]

A 23 year old Pippin without the personality flaws and hang-ups...

This is an IDIOTIC place to be trying to game. This is like spitting in the wind or pulling on superman's cape.

I don't think there are more than 5 players in the league that would cause even the slightest bit of hesitation for ANY gm in the league to consider trading for AK. You DO NOT let him get away.
Well I wouldn't go 5, but I'd certainly say there aren't 20, and each and every one of those 20 is either receiving a max contract or will be when his current deal is up.

I do understand perhaps the dilemna Utah is facing -- I do NOT think that AK47 can be the best basketball player on your team if you're going to win an NBA title. Certainly he can't be your best offensive player. So if you max him out, it puts a real squeeze on you on how to get that #1 guy. But again, Kirilenko's the piece you have to have right now, whatever the futrue may bring. And if the market says max deal, well, you have to go max deal.

[C Diddy]

A 23 year old Pippin without the personality flaws and hang-ups...

This is an IDIOTIC place to be trying to game. This is like spitting in the wind or pulling on superman's cape.

I don't think there are more than 5 players in the league that would cause even the slightest bit of hesitation for ANY gm in the league to consider trading for AK. You DO NOT let him get away.
Lets keep Kirilenko off the high pedestal and come back to reality for a moment. Kirilenko is not yet a top ten player in this league in the eyes of GM's. I can name 10 guys off the top of my head that as a GM, I wouldnt trade for Kirilenko:

Garnett
Duncan
Bryant
O'Neal
Mcgrady
Yao
James
Anthony
Kidd
Nowitski

Heck, I'll throw in a few more:
J O'Neal
Stojakovic
Webber
Pierce

Kirilenko is a very good player. Not great, but very good. I think the Jazz made a bad move by giving so much money to Boozer and Okur, but the good move is to wait and see with Kirilenko. His role will be reduced this year barring injuries to Harpring again. His PPG will go down this year with Boozer and Okur there, a healthy Harpring, and Arroyo coming off a breakout season and a solid olympic showing. He is a very well rounded player. But he's not yet top tier.

[mcsluggo]

I'll give you 8 of them

Garnett
Duncan
Bryant
O'Neal
Mcgrady
Yao
James
Nowitski

but put AK 9th on the list for me.

[Mike B]

McSluggo - I like your list.

[NME]

When you consider his age, he has to be one of the most valuable commodities in the league. I'd say only KG can match his combination of team and individual defensive skills, and he's an excellent complimentary offensive player with the potential (though I'm not sure about the mindset) to be more.

One reason they may be hesitant to give him a max-like deal right now is that it's suspected the next CBA may cut down the size and particularly the length of those deals, so unless they can get a bargain they may wait and see how it pans out. They aren't risking an awful lot since they'll have the right to match any offer. Certainly after the money they spent on Boozer and Okur, they should be willing to pay AK whatever it takes.

[4cwebb]

When you consider his age, he has to be one of the most valuable commodities in the league. I'd say only KG can match his combination of team and individual defensive skills, and he's an excellent complimentary offensive player with the potential (though I'm not sure about the mindset) to be more.

One reason they may be hesitant to give him a max-like deal right now is that it's suspected the next CBA may cut down the size and particularly the length of those deals, so unless they can get a bargain they may wait and see how it pans out. They aren't risking an awful lot since they'll have the right to match any offer. Certainly after the money they spent on Boozer and Okur, they should be willing to pay AK whatever it takes.
I think this is a good reason, but it's troubling that the same logic wasn't applied to the acquisition of Okur and Boozer since the Jazz had to pry them off of other teams, so they were rewarded, in a sense, for starting out somewhere else. AK-47 may be put in the same position after this season, meaning that in order to actually get paid, he has to switch teams.

[Bricklayer]

When you consider his age, he has to be one of the most valuable commodities in the league. I'd say only KG can match his combination of team and individual defensive skills, and he's an excellent complimentary offensive player with the potential (though I'm not sure about the mindset) to be more.

One reason they may be hesitant to give him a max-like deal right now is that it's suspected the next CBA may cut down the size and particularly the length of those deals, so unless they can get a bargain they may wait and see how it pans out. They aren't risking an awful lot since they'll have the right to match any offer. Certainly after the money they spent on Boozer and Okur, they should be willing to pay AK whatever it takes.
thing is, would you realy want to intentionally wait until a max contract runs for FEWER years if you're the Jazz talking about a 23 yr old Kirilenko? Seems to me at that age you WANT the contract to run 7 years rather than 5. Because after its over, he's a FA and if he hops onto the market in his prime at 28-29...you're going to have a hard time keeping him.

[Double-K]

I really think Jazz should pay him the max deal if he demands it.......Yeah....as Brick said, he might be the Pippen-kind more than the Jordan-kind........but sometimes you don't need a "super" superstar like Jordan to take you to the promiseland.......look at Pistons.........
Sometimes you might rather have 5,6 "B grade" players than 1 "A grade" and bunch of "D,E grader" players who can't support the Ace...........

[VF21]

I really think Jazz should pay him the max deal if he demands it.......Yeah....as Brick said, he might be the Pippen-kind more than the Jordan-kind........but sometimes you don't need a "super" superstar like Jordan to take you to the promiseland.......look at Pistons.........
Sometimes you might rather have 5,6 "B grade" players than 1 "A grade" and bunch of "D,E grader" players who can't support the Ace...........
In the Western conference, you'd better have a superstar...or two.

[HndsmCelt]

Folks the boy will be a restricted FA, why should Utha pay one dime more more than the best offer? A contract extension at this point does not buy them much and they are forced to guess at AK's market value at the end of the season. As long s they bargin in good faith and do not insult him this thing can be hammerd out any time this season or worst case scenario over the summer when other offers come in. In fact the only real adavantae to the team in doing the deal now is the possiblity of writing out a longer deal or getting the ink on the paper for trade purposes. Really this is much ado about nothing.

[Gargamel]

This is an IDIOTIC place to be trying to game. This is like spitting in the wind or pulling on superman's cape.
Jim Croce lives!

[Gargamel]

Lets keep Kirilenko off the high pedestal and come back to reality for a moment.
There are not a lot of guys who can average 17, 8, 3, 1.9 spg, and 2.8 bpg. He deserves a place on a high pedestal.

[Bricklayer]

There are not a lot of guys who can average 17, 8, 3, 1.9 spg, and 2.8 bpg. He deserves a place on a high pedestal.
No there aren't a lot of guys who can get those numbers, but the question would be how significant are they when matched up against the superstar type players? And they are a bit lacking if that's what we're trying to anoint him as. He's a great player, but is he really a franchise guy? A carry you all by himself guy? Not sure about that.

However I remain sure that the Jazz absolutely have to sign him.

[Gargamel]

No there aren't a lot of guys who can get those numbers, but the question would be how significant are they when matched up against the superstar type players? And they are a bit lacking if that's what we're trying to anoint him as. He's a great player, but is he really a franchise guy? A carry you all by himself guy? Not sure about that.

However I remain sure that the Jazz absolutely have to sign him.
Imo, he's up there in superstar territory based on what he's done last year. He averaged about 3 PARBS less than Nowitzki. He's still only a 3 year vet, so there's room for improvement in the scoring dep't, which is probably the easiest thing to add to one's game. He's definitely a franchise player. He's exactly the type of player you don't let slip thru your fingers.

There are a lot of superstars who can't carry their teams alone, so that shouldn't be a knock against AK. However, the Jazz were respectable with him as their only go-to guy (without Harpring for 50 games).

[Bricklayer]

I think we may be tossing around the term "superstar" a little loosely if 16.5pts 8.1rebs 3.1ast gets you there, even with great defense. Lamar Odom last year put up 17.1pts 9.7rebs and 4.1ast and I wouldn't call him a superstar either. Star level player sure. Best player on his team, sure. But like Kirilenko, the team's success was a collective effort rather than an individual brilliance thing.

Put another way, Doug Christie in Toronto once had a season where he went 16.5ppg 5.2rpg 3.6apg 2.4spg and I don't think anyone accused him of being a superstar. Really good (and underrated at the time) player, but really now.

BTW, I would strongly suspect Dirk's PARBS to shoot up this year with his in-team competition eliminated. Whether Kirilenko deserves a "super" in front of his star probably depends on whether his does the same. Have my doubts. If they have a healthy Harpring/Boozer/Okur crew this year, think his numbers might even go down. He'll still key the defense, but may just be one of a quartet of 15ppg scorer types they'll be relying on. IMO his true beauty for the future is that if they can ever find a "true" superstar type player, that Andrei is the perfect compliment -- can play his full game without interfering or being diminsihed by the main guy.

[Gargamel]

I never definitively labeled AK a superstar, but I think he's right there in the nether region between stardom and superstardom and I do think he's the Jazz' franchise player. The difference between him and guys like Odom-03 and Christie-96 is that AK has the potential to improve from his previous season. The other two probably peaked in those seasons. AK can very well earn the superstar label if he increases his scoring alone.

[6th]

I never definitively labeled AK a superstar, but I think he's right there in the nether region between stardom and superstardom and I do think he's the Jazz' franchise player. The difference between him and guys like Odom-03 and Christie-96 is that AK has the potential to improve from his previous season. The other two probably peaked in those seasons. AK can very well earn the superstar label if he increases his scoring alone.
I like this assessment of AK. I too think he has the potential, and based on his increased value to the team, the probability of becoming a superstar as the franchise player. However, considering the players that the Jazz picked up this offseason, I question if Sloan will play him as much as he played him last year.

[peja16]

I think we may be tossing around the term "superstar" a little loosely if 16.5pts 8.1rebs 3.1ast gets you there, even with great defense. Lamar Odom last year put up 17.1pts 9.7rebs and 4.1ast and I wouldn't call him a superstar either. Star level player sure. Best player on his team, sure. But like Kirilenko, the team's success was a collective effort rather than an individual brilliance thing.

Put another way, Doug Christie in Toronto once had a season where he went 16.5ppg 5.2rpg 3.6apg 2.4spg and I don't think anyone accused him of being a superstar. Really good (and underrated at the time) player, but really now.

BTW, I would strongly suspect Dirk's PARBS to shoot up this year with his in-team competition eliminated. Whether Kirilenko deserves a "super" in front of his star probably depends on whether his does the same. Have my doubts. If they have a healthy Harpring/Boozer/Okur crew this year, think his numbers might even go down. He'll still key the defense, but may just be one of a quartet of 15ppg scorer types they'll be relying on. IMO his true beauty for the future is that if they can ever find a "true" superstar type player, that Andrei is the perfect compliment -- can play his full game without interfering or being diminsihed by the main guy.

Good take, especially the stuff in bold. There's a high respect for "do-it-all" players nowadays, maybe too much. Being a jack of all trades (Pippen) might not get you as far as a player more dominant in several aspects (Jordan), but without the same arsenal of skills.

And Hndsmcelt was spot-on as far as the contract situation goes, as long as they don't insult or ingore him, they really have no reason to extend his contract at this point, and can simply match for market value next summer.

And there is no danger in that case, because with max players, you can't overpay. As long as other teams are willing to pay the max, you re-sign him, and are basically in the exact same situation as last year.

I'd say this is more about his agent generating bad publicity for the Jazz, trying to pressure them into a long-term deal, incase he has on off-year or an injury or something.

[mcsluggo]

I would say that the problem with Pippin wasn't the fact that he wasn't more dominant in different aspects of the game, it was that he was a head-case.

He was an a-hole, selfish person (though usually not a selfish player); and he had nerves of butter at the end of games. He was dominant enough in ALL aspects of his game (until the end o' the game). I'd equate him roughly with Karl Malone in that respect (and unfortunately, all too many king's players)

[jacobdrj]

Yeah, only worth 86 mill (NBA.com)

[4cwebb]

Kirilenko's line from first game: 16 points on 5/6 from the floor and 6/7 from the line, 6 boards (2 offensive), 1 assist, 5 turnovers (yikes), 1 steal and 8 blocks. 8 blocks -- ridiculous. If Jazz don't want to extend his contract, I say we start pushing an AK-47 for Peja trade right now...

[HndsmCelt]

They signed the 80 mill contract this week... AK 47 will be in Mormanville for a long time

[Superman]

Andrei Kirilenko is the truth. Ask the eight Lakers whose shots got blocked by him last night. I still can't believe that Carmelo Anthony complained about not getting picked to go to the All-Star game over AK47.

[VF21]

I still can't believe that Carmelo Anthony complained about not getting picked to go to the All-Star game over AK47.
At one point, I actually defended Melo. After recent actions and comments, however, I think he's just another spoiled kid with way too much money because he has a natural ability to play hoops. AK47, on the other hand, works HARD out there and it's because he's not a natural that his effort is all the more impressive.

[Superman]

Word.

[vladetomiller]

At one point, I actually defended Melo. After recent actions and comments, however, I think he's just another spoiled kid with way too much money because he has a natural ability to play hoops. AK47, on the other hand, works HARD out there and it's because he's not a natural that his effort is all the more impressive.
And the main thing that i am impressed with players of that caliber is the improvement they show year after year, not just the athletic ability to jump and dunk which makes them the lottery picks.

[VF21]

And the main thing that i am impressed with players of that caliber is the improvement they show year after year, not just the athletic ability to jump and dunk which makes them the lottery picks.
Exactly. (Boy, that's rare. You and I agree???? Someone mark this date and thread down for posterity.)

;)

[vladetomiller]

Hey we have agreed on lots of things before, its just that some of the core issues that we remember the most, we are way apart.

[Deez]

When I read the title of this thread, my first thought was, "I never thought I'd see the words 'Andrei Kirilenko' and 'handsome' in the same sentence."

Disclaimer: I didnt read the whole thread, so if that was already mentioned, my apologies.

[vladetomiller]

Apparently his beautiful, rich, pop singer wife thinks he is handsome ;)

I am a guy so i dont know if he is handsome or not, but he doesnt strike me as an ugly person which many of the nba players do look like

[Deez]

Apparently his beautiful, rich, pop singer wife thinks he is handsome ;)

I am a guy so i dont know if he is handsome or not, but he doesnt strike me as an ugly person which many of the nba players do look like
To each his (or her) own, I suppose.

http://www.terra.com.ar/imgcanales/chapas/kirilenko.gif

[Gargamel]

He looks like a human eagle.

[Superman]

Is that an oxymoron or what?

[LPKingsFan]

His mohawk was sweet.

[Superman]

His mohawk was sweet.
Sike.

[iheartBrad]

AK and Gasol always reminded me of the same type of player...given AK is slightly more advanced in different stats...but they always reminded me of the same player...like the same player to the team

anyone who thinks that AK isn't worth alot or that he is overrated OBVIOULSY has never watched AK play basketball (in a 48 minute NBA game) cuz the kid is absolutely crazy statistically...and everyone would die to have a player like AK on their team