Kings @ Clippers Game Thread

[piksi]

Do we still own Clippers ?
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On December 29th 1999 Kings won in Seattle 113 - 104 to improve to 17-10 for the season. Kings had a lead early but Sonics came back and the game was tied sfter 3/4. At the end the "bench mob" came trough. Webber lead the Kings with 31/10/3. Martin was great replacement for JWill with 21/2/7. Corliss also had 16/7/2. Bench mob was awsome. They outscored Sonic's bench 34-19. Pedja and JB scored 14 pts each. Looking at the boxscores - Brent Barry was appearently killing us back then too,


"The coaching staff knows I've started in this league and I've been pretty productive as a starter," Martin said. "They know if Jason goes down, I can step in. I know how to play as a lead guard and how to lead a team."


Martin made 6-of-11 shots, including 3-of-5 from 3-point range. He added seven assists and helped hold Payton to 11-of-30 shooting, including 1-of-9 from behind the arc.


"I just tried to play according to what the team needed me to do," Martin said. "In the second half, they needed me to step up a little more and score a little more, so that's what I did."

A jumper by Webber gave the Kings the lead for good at 89-87 with 8:29 to play. Predrag Stojakovic, who scored 11 of his 14 points in the fourth quarter, followed with a basket just over a minute later.

"One of the reasons why I'm most proud of this win is because when you play a team with Gary Payton and they are losing four in a row, you're not supposed to win the fifth," Webber said. "Knowing the type of will they have, to come out with this win is big and shouldn't be underestimated."
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Kings have their winning streak and it really doesn't matter how we got to it. Even if it takes a gutted Denver team and the NBDL team from Philadelphia - it is still a winning streak. So Kings are 12-14 which is still kinda bad but at least Kings have been beating teams they are supposed to do. We will be fighting for the 8th PO spot. Also Kings have a real chance to get back to 0.500 because a back to back set is coming up where we play a team we own and a team that is so due for a payback.
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What happenes when we run out of "bad" opponents. What happenes when ther are no more Hawks, Sixers atc left on the schedule ? I don't want to find out these days. Too bad we aren't playing the Hornets, Rockets or the Grizzlies these days. You still have to come out and suck less than they do because if You suck big time they will drag You down and beat You with experience. So far Kings have managed to stay away from bad losses. On the related note - Knicks are in town soon.
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"From a superstar to a towell boy" is going to be a title of Chris Webber's career if he doesn't retire soon. It is a shame but it is what it is. A player and a person who did so much for the Sacramento in general is pretty much done. All that is left is the +/- 40 million $ he will make. That late spring night in Dallas didn't change just the future of the Kings but also "ended" Webber's career as we knew it. At this point - all there is left from Webber are his great hands and ego and of course the contract. If he doesn't retire he will soon enough be a towell boy or a Mo Taylor type of player. Looks like trading Webber wasn't as bad as it looked. It wasn't great but at least we found someone dumb enough to take him. As painful as it is - KT is right now much better player than Webber and Mo Taylor isn't far away. Like I said - it is a shame. That damn late spring night in Dallas. Thanks for the memories.
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Who are we trading where and who are we getting in return ? I have no clue when the trading deadline is but until then we will go trough this cycle bunch of times. Artest for Magette - who cares really ? Doesn't help us at all but doesn't relally hurt us either. Haven't we done enough pointless trades in the last 3 years or so. Going from one "quick fix" to another while losing isn't something to look forward to. Ron will not stay here past his current contract. Don't kid Yourself ! He can't be trusted mostly because he is as stable as Plutonium and he has the same effect too. Are we going to turn into "Pacers II" We took their dirty laundry, tried to wash it - didn't work - let's pass it to someone else while there are still any takers. There is no reason to believe that Ron will keep it toghether and then stay in Sacramento longer than 2 more years. None. And he will blow up way before that unless we all agree to buy his CD and wear his clothes. I would rather lose to the Lakers. Vulpes pilum mutat, non mores.
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Lately, I am pretty unhappy about our composure, lack of discipline and unprofessional behaviour on the court. Can we really aford to give away free points due to the technical fouls. Are we that good (rethorical) ? So this is to Corliss, SAR, KT, Brad and the rest. Quit complaining, whining, and save Your breath for some transition defense and hit a layup from time to time plaase. There is nothing worse then when a player who sucked the whole game gets a technical for arguing with the refs. Just shut up and go wave with the towell or something. "Shut up and play" is a popular topic around here these days. In this case it is not even figurative.
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Looking at this board lately (mostly the topics of discussions) - things sure have change. Sometimes - You look at a thread and shake Your head and try to think - why would anyone think of something like this and how. If we had a competition for the dumbest thread - it would be interesting and close race. On the other side - the more things change the more they stay the same. If You look at it from the distance - nothing really changed in terms of topics, posters, discussions, arguments. Absolutely nothing. The setting around it is different - is all. We just aren't winning anymore. When You win - even pointless discussions are much more fun. We used to argue - whether we won the game because of player XY or despite of him. We used to argue whether the win needed to be this close or a blowout. We argued whether we were passing too much or playing too fancy from time to time. We used to argue whether winning 50 + games is enough or not. We were winning and watching games and "arguing" was a big part of this great experience. We went to bad happy (speaking only about Kings universe - microscopically). We couldn't wait for another game, another win. We didn't care who we play and where. We didn't worry about a loss because we knew more wins are coming up. It changed. Now we worry about every game, some of the games aren't really fun to watch. Even worse - there were games that whatching was a compleate waste of time. Even wins aren't the same anymore. For example, tonight I watched Kings insteas of watching a great game that went to 3 overtimes between Knicks and Pistons. There is some great BB played in this league. It sucks not being part of it.
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Kings did what they were supposed to do. We beat the Sixers who are by far the worst team in the NBA. They wouldn't even win the euroleague. As ugly as the game was - it was easy win. As bad as we are capable of playing - we can't play worse than Sixers. We only had 6 turnovers tonight even though we have players that are perfectly capable of havein 6 TOs in a quarter. What we can take out odfthis game is a W and a good game by Bibby. Only regret is htat we can't play them every night.
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AWARD TIME

There is not TDM award winner tonight. This reward does require certain performance. Sixers did not have a player who earned it tonight.
LW-VC award goes to Andre Miller who was just great tonight;). He missed the shots when we needed hima and then he turned it over. Honorable mention - Chris Webber. He was at least as horrible but I just didn't have a heart to give it to him.
JHA - goes to Jason Hart himself who not only sucks as a player but also has no class either.
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Clipper are next and we own the Clippers. They are actually in worse shape than we are and there is no reason for us to give them hope. Since they are "drowning" - we need to help the - drown some more. Only thing that is predictable for this game is the fact that it is unpredictable. We should win this based on tradition and current form:eek:. What we have going against us is the theory of big numbers or - "even a blind chicken finds a corn sometimes."
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Mike - do it again please
Ron - I am afraid - the pills aren't working well these days
Kevin - screw the flu
SAR - get well soon we miss Your technicals
Brad - good luch against the caveman
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KT - too bad he can't play Webber every night
Salmons - can't be great every night
Corliss - ok I guess
rest - mateen
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Muss - he is learning because this time he only left Ron play in the garbage time. Let's just hope that it won't cause some additional soarnesses.
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Clipps are on the paper better than they are showing it. They are beating Celtics as we speak but that doesn't mean much. Golumn might or might not play. Caveman will abuse us. Artest - Magette matchup suddenly got very interesting. Brand will be brand. Tim Thoms will probably win TDM award. Mobley will win the LW-VC award. When it is all said and done - it is hard to go against the tradition hence the winning streak continues.
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[VF21]

Honorable mention - Chris Webber. He was at least as horrible but I just didn't have a heart to give it to him.

Why, piksi... is that emotion showing through?

;)

[piksi]

Why, piksi... is that emotion showing through?

;)


Never thought about it that way :confused:











;)

[VF21]

It's okay. It's the exception that proves the rule.

;)

[piksi]

It's okay. It's the exception that proves the rule.

;)

which isn't something we really need before the Clippers game:p:D

[VF21]

Bump...

;)

[Larry89]

This will be ugly.



















for the clippers










because we own them in every single way possible.

[chelle]

Let's wait and say that AFTER we win!;)

I'm a supersticious optimist!!!:D

[most_casual_observer]

Grant just announced that Ron will start

[piksi]

Well Bobcats set a table for a pleasant evening. Let's hope that Kings can make it perfect

[6th]

Well Bobcats set a table for a pleasant evening. Let's hope that Kings can make it perfect


Yes! Yes!

[piksi]

My eyes are hurting again. This uniforms just suck.

[ImAKing]

My eyes are hurting again. This uniforms just suck.
am i the only one who dig the gold uni?

[ImAKing]

is it my TV or is there a sound problem with news10?

[piksi]

Well, this is much more like BB from both teams

[most_casual_observer]

i don't like the gold unis either...and my sound seems fine on 10.

I hope Mobley can't keep oodling up those 3 point meteors!

[KingsChick]

Looks like Ron wants to be here tonight... :D

[ImAKing]

lol just noticed Artest is wearing matching gold shoes.

[piksi]

First team that decides to defend will win the game unless it is the Clippers

[piksi]

Looks like Magette wants to get the hell out of there

[most_casual_observer]

Bibby bact to one-on-one mode, no ball movement...but wait, here comes dooby

[OptimusRhyme]

Wow whats with the no calls on Martin he got raped on that last play.

[6th]

Another lousy ending to an otherwise decent quarter.

[kennadog]

Bibby bact to one-on-one mode, no ball movement...but wait, here comes doobyMore than Bibby back to one-on-one. Looked like everybody decided to quit doing what was working.

[piksi]

Finally a decent looking game involving Kings

[VF21]

I hope Mobley can't keep oodling up those 3 point meteors!

Very good!

:D

[piksi]

Caveman is killing us again.

Clippers are " winning ugly" in the true meaning of those words

[most_casual_observer]

it appears that Muss is confident enough of winning to experiment a little.

[piksi]

So far Magette >>> Ron in this game

[creAtivetfh]

it appears that Muss is confident enough of winning to experiment a little.

perfectly said.

seriously what the hell lineups is he throwing out there???

[kennadog]

Kaman does look almost human-like with a haircut.;) :p

[piksi]

it appears that Muss is confident enough of winning to experiment a little.

either that or he as usual has no clue what he is doing

[OptimusRhyme]

gotta give muss props for letting Douby play, its good that hes giving the rook a chance, this is going to make price and garcia work that much harder to improve.

[piksi]

Kaman does look almost human-like with a haircut.;) :p


Can't fool us yet:D

[chelle]

either that or he as usual has no clue what he is doing

Sadly, that is exactly what I have begun to think.

[OptimusRhyme]

That was SICK salmons!

[KingsChick]

What's up with Maggette tonight.....:rolleyes:

[piksi]

Maybe we can swap Magette and Ron in the second half - just to try it out

[piksi]

What's up with Maggette tonight.....:rolleyes:

he wants to get the hell out of there

[VF21]

What's up with Maggette tonight.....:rolleyes:

Showing he's not just a scrub?

[most_casual_observer]

Salmons seems to be having some fun out there...Martin seems a little weak, maybe flu hangover.

Kaman for TDM?

[piksi]

Pretty solid half considering that Mike & Ron have been useless

[VF21]

Pretty solid half considering that Mike & Ron have been useless

Gotta disagree about Mike. He hasn't got numbers but he's been passing the ball to the guys who've been getting the assists and has actually passed up some shots to do so...

[most_casual_observer]

clips have no shot if the Kings keep distributing like this

[ezekielbear]

clips have no shot if the Kings keep distributing like this

I hope you're being sarcastic. lol

[LMM]

^^ they have a shot if they keep up the 54% shooting!

So much for our defense being upped a notch. ;)

And uhh, great technical foul there. ugh.

[most_casual_observer]

KT doing the work of two men












Laurel & Hardy:mad:

[piksi]

clips have no shot if the Kings keep distributing like this

Are You sure - because I have an odd feeling about this one

[most_casual_observer]

Are You sure - because I have an odd feeling about this one

No sure things I suppose---at least I said IF.

We really need to win this one, it is there for the taking.

[ezekielbear]

Elton Brand is murdering us.

So is about half of our roster.

[creAtivetfh]

i already turned it off..

what the hell is Artest doing out there.

[piksi]

Is Ron aware that the trade didn't happen yer because he is the best Clipper so far

[piksi]

i already turned it off..

what the hell is Artest doing out there.

playing for the Clippers already

[ezekielbear]

Artest looks like he's thinking about his album sales right now.

Basketball looks pretty far from his mind.

[Sluggah]

i wish i knew what happens in our lockerroom during half time.

[D-Mass]

Bets on whether the ball movement improves if Artest comes out?

[piksi]

Clippers just might have a better PF than we do

[ezekielbear]

Why did Bibby take an 18 foot fade away out of a timeout.

[D-Mass]

After tonight (so far), why would the Clippers trade Maggette for Artest?

[piksi]

Bets on whether the ball movement improves if Artest comes out?


is the banana yellow ?

[6th]

I am so sick of the sucky 3rd qtrs that the Kings play.....game after game after game.

[piksi]

Why did Bibby take an 18 foot fade away out of a timeout.

because he can

[creAtivetfh]

we suck.

[Heuge]

what the heck is Ron doing...as I see it, literally nothing.

[piksi]

I am so sick of the sucky 3rd qtrs that the Kings play.....game after game after game.


sure but it might be the only consistant thing we did all season long:eek:

[D-Mass]

what the heck is Ron doing...as I see it, literally nothing.

right now he's doing what he should be doing...sitting on the bench.

[ezekielbear]

because he can

That's the sad part.

Anybody want to take a guess as to what Popovich would do to Tony Parker if he took an 18 foot fader out of a timeout.

[piksi]

right now he's doing what he should be doing...sitting on the bench.

let's just hope that the damage hasn't been done yet

[piksi]

That's the sad part.

Anybody want to take a guess as to what Popovich would do to Tony Parker if he took an 18 foot fader out of a timeout.

it wouldn't be a pretty sight

[LMM]

Third quarters. Ugh.

And Salmons missed both FTs?

come on!!!!!

[creAtivetfh]

2 game losing streak anybody??

[piksi]

2 game losing streak anybody??

possible but so is the 4 game winning streak

[ezekielbear]

I need to borrow Musselman's drink.

[ezekielbear]

So we've given away two points in T's for little to zero reason.

Awesome.

[piksi]

I need to borrow Musselman's drink.

might as well be just water

[most_casual_observer]

Bets on whether the ball movement improves if Artest comes out?

I'll take the over

[creAtivetfh]

Blah!

[ezekielbear]

This seems like it's going to be an "almost win"

[Heuge]

if only every game could be against the sixers....

[piksi]

if only every game could be against the sixers....

I wouldn't mind playing Hornets either


Sixers won in Portland

[chelle]

We used to be able to say that about the Clippers.
Maybe we can still get a win tonight.:o

[piksi]

We used to be able to say that about the Clippers.
Maybe we can still get a win tonight.:o

It is possible

[piksi]

No KT in the 2nd half - I guess ?

[ezekielbear]

Mobley just out rebounded 4 Kings.

I'm speechless.

[piksi]

Mobley just out rebounded 4 Kings.

I'm speechless.

I am not speachless but what I have to say would be censored

[piksi]

we need a run and soon

[creAtivetfh]

..soo about that magette for artest trade??

[creAtivetfh]

jesus christ we should just leave artest there.

[ezekielbear]

What in the hell Artest....

[piksi]

SAR is doing well in the 2nd half

[ezekielbear]

And now Reef is launching 26 footers.

It's like they think it's an And1 game.

[creAtivetfh]

And now Reef is launching 26 footers.

It's like they think it's an And1 game.

yup.

[Ms.Williams]

At Least Brand Has 5 Fouls

[most_casual_observer]

we shall shoot ourselves out of the game. All too familiar.

[creAtivetfh]

is it bad that i honestly believe the Bobcats are better than the Kings.

They sure do play a hell of a lot harder and smarter. And not nearly as talented.

[chelle]

We had a decent first half. What the @#$% happened? Who do we play tomorrow night - just in case we don't manage a comeback tonight.

[ezekielbear]

At Least Brand Has 5 Fouls

Somebody needs to get Musselman a rule book.

Kaman who has abused Miller and the Kings had 4 with just under 10 min left in the 3rd quarter.

One would think, to get the 5th. But nah... :confused:

[ezekielbear]

Is it me, or do the Kings almost always wake up when they're down about 12 with 3 min in the game? They'll get it to about 5. Then die.

It's about the only time they show some desire.

[most_casual_observer]

is it bad that i honestly believe the Bobcats are better than the Kings.

They sure do play a hell of a lot harder and smarter. And not nearly as talented.

That's what makes it frustrating, we don't play as well as we can play. We see the capabilities intermittently, but no consistency.

[ezekielbear]

And why is Kevin Martin sitting on the bench?

[creAtivetfh]

And why is Kevin Martin sitting on the bench?

because Eric Musselman is our Coach.


oh, better take Bibby out.. hes showing some pride.

[D-Mass]

No timeouts, no substitutions...UGH!

[creAtivetfh]

thats bull**** they should have called livingston on grabbing his foot.

[ezekielbear]

Again, I come back to the stupid T's Musselman and Kenny Thomas got.

Oh...gee...another. Now it's Bibby.

5 point game is a lot better then an 8.

[creAtivetfh]

if only bibby's emotions would be there during the whold game

[creAtivetfh]

one on one
one on one
one on one
one on one



hey Coach maybe we should only play one guy.

[PixelPusher]

*tears up the deed*

[D-Mass]

This was just an AWFUL loss.

[Ms.Williams]

The Streak Is Over

[ezekielbear]

It's a bad sign when the owners show more emotion on the sideline then the players on the court do.

[most_casual_observer]

we can expect to be crushed by the warriors tomorrow night as we continue to grope for game.

[chelle]

if only bibby's emotions would be there during the whold game


He showed more heart and emotion than the rest of them tonight. Not going to blame him for this one.

[VF21]

The players are frustrated and I do not blame them in the least. They cannot get any kind of rhythm going because the coach will substitute them whenever the voices tell him to.

[NikateeN]

Wow, i dont know what to say anymore, im at a loss of words, it just always falls apart at the end.

[LMM]

We lost to the clips. Ack. :(

[D-Mass]

I'm SURE the Clippers are rethinking any Maggette/Artest trade.

[kennadog]

The players are frustrated and I do not blame them in the least. They cannot get any kind of rhythm going because the coach will substitute them whenever the voices tell him to.Gotta admit I'm totally baffled by whatever Musselman is trying to do.:confused: :confused: :confused:

[VF21]

Did you guys SEE Musselman on the bench, head down, looking dejected with about 4 minutes left to go? that is NOT the image I want my team's coach projecting in a game.

blame for this one HAS to go with Musselman. Poor rotations, poor match-ups, just generally inept coaching.

and I think I'll stop there because I am very, very, very less than happy right now.

[creAtivetfh]

anybody seen the movie "invincible" yet?

i think we need to do that for a coach.
this guy is a moron.

[ezekielbear]

These are PROFESSIONAL basketball players. You get paid millions of dollars to play basketball.

At least act like you care....

Ugh.

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

*tears up the deed*Man, what's the world coming to when we can't even beat the Clippers?

Cue BLNINJA#81

[LMM]

The players are frustrated and I do not blame them in the least. They cannot get any kind of rhythm going because the coach will substitute them whenever the voices tell him to.

I know, seriously!

Muss better establish a rotation and stick with it!

We will never get any sort of rhythm, consistency, or chemistry if we keep shuffling the lineup!:rolleyes:

[chelle]

The players are frustrated and I do not blame them in the least. They cannot get any kind of rhythm going because the coach will substitute them whenever the voices tell him to.


I have tried REALLY hard not to blame the coaches when TEAMS lose. However, how can the players expect to be consistent while playing musical chairs on the bench!!

[kennadog]

Did you guys SEE Musselman on the bench, head down, looking dejected with about 4 minutes left to go? that is NOT the image I want my team's coach projecting in a game.

blame for this one HAS to go with Musselman. Poor rotations, poor match-ups, just generally inept coaching.

and I think I'll stop there because I am very, very, very less than happy right now.Unfortunately I've seen that during too many games this season. He may get emotional, but when the team is struggling, you can't look like you have zero confidence in them, even if that's how you feel at the moment. Good grief.

EDIT: And a lot of the time he looks like he hasn't got the least glimmer of what to do.:(

[ezekielbear]

Any team that allows players to come out of a timeout, and fling an 18 foot fadeaway jumper...things are not right.

Be that the coach allowing the player to do so, or, the player just doing it because he wanted to.

That...CAN NOT...happen.

As I said earlier...Tony Parker wouldn't live to see another day if Popovich saw that.

[Bricklayer]

I know, seriously!

Muss better establish a rotation and stick with it!

We will never get any sort of rhythm, consistency, or chemistry if we keep shuffling the lineup!:rolleyes:

Oh stop that -- that was supposed to be one of the major plusses of getting rid of Adelman remember? No set rotations? Play everybody? Key to victory I tell ya! :rolleyes:

[VF21]

These are PROFESSIONAL basketball players. You get paid millions of dollars to play basketball.

At least act like you care....

Ugh.

That's not fair and it's not accurate, Ezekiel IMHO. The team is only as good as its coach. And right now the coach is making it impossible for them to play like a team. If someone gets hot, he pulls him and sends in someone who isn't within the flow of the game, etc. The team tries to adjust and Musselman makes more "voice-based" substitutions. As I said above, when you see an NBA head coach sitting dejectedly, head in hands, body language screaming defeat, with over 4 minutes left in a game that is still winnable, you have to ask why.

I will criticize the players as much as anyone on this board but they're being put in a position where it's almost impossible for them to come together as a cohesive unit.

[chelle]

So when does the first "Fire Musselman" thread start?;)



Can we fly Coachie out for a visit? Just for a little ispirational day trip!

[DaMan]

Can i say our offense looked good when we went in the post, but instead we started taking jumpers at the end. And I can't blame this whole thing on the coach this team just stinks, we don't have the right players to compet for the playoffs only for the lottery. I don't think RA could even fix this mess.

[creAtivetfh]

at least the Lakers lost.

[chelle]

Any team that allows players to come out of a timeout, and fling an 18 foot fadeaway jumper...things are not right.

Be that the coach allowing the player to do so, or, the player just doing it because he wanted to.

That...CAN NOT...happen.

As I said earlier...Tony Parker wouldn't live to see another day if Popovich saw that.


Mussleman is no POP. I honestly do not think that he has ANY control over this team.

[VF21]

Man, what's the world coming to when we can't even beat the Clippers?

Cue BLNINJA#81

I haven't seen him around lately. I hope he hasn't gone to ground for the season.

Boy, this one hurts because IMHO it was truly winnable.

I love this team but I'm really beginning to doubt if anything can turn us around as long as we have the leadership deficit at the coaching slot.

[LMM]

Oh stop that -- that was supposed to be one of the major plusses of getting rid of Adelman remember? No set rotations? Play everybody? Key to victory I tell ya! :rolleyes:

Don't forget the getting a "defensive-minded coach" part ;)

I was gonna add Adelman to my post but didn't want the thread to be another Muss vs Rick debate.

At this point, it's just an insult to Adelman to be compared to Muss, who really doesn't seem like he knows what he's doing.:o

[most_casual_observer]

These are PROFESSIONAL basketball players. You get paid millions of dollars to play basketball.

At least act like you care....

Ugh.

The ONLY reason they lack desire is because it is OK to be that way. Someone's earlier allusion to how Popovich would handle this crap is instructive.

[1 TeAm DiMe 0]

why put douby in and play him for 3 minutes when hes not even going to play the rest of the game
what is the point of that?
we still have kenny missing point blank layups, so if he cries, so be it...but dont let him start anymore

Did Artest even play today?

[chelle]

why put douby in and play him for 3 minutes when hes not even going to play the rest of the game
what is the point of that?
we still have kenny missing point blank layups, so if he cries, so be it...but dont let him start anymore

Did Artest even play today?

For the Clippers.



Sorry, that was ugly of me.

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Are we making a run at Oden? That was awful

[D-Mass]

why put douby in and play him for 3 minutes when hes not even going to play the rest of the game
what is the point of that?
we still have kenny missing point blank layups, so if he cries, so be it...but dont let him start anymore

Did Artest even play today?

By "play" you mean...

[ezekielbear]

That's not fair and it's not accurate, Ezekiel IMHO. The team is only as good as its coach. And right now the coach is making it impossible for them to play like a team. If someone gets hot, he pulls him and sends in someone who isn't within the flow of the game, etc. The team tries to adjust and Musselman makes more "voice-based" substitutions. As I said above, when you see an NBA head coach sitting dejectedly, head in hands, body language screaming defeat, with over 4 minutes left in a game that is still winnable, you have to ask why.

I will criticize the players as much as anyone on this board but they're being put in a position where it's almost impossible for them to come together as a cohesive unit.

They are all to blame. This isn't ALL the players fault...or just ALL the coaching staff. Musselman coached the same way in GS.

It's a combo of everything, IMO.

That said, these aren't 12 year old's playing in a rec league. If they can't play with desire, then get some guys that can. These guys take for granted they're in the league...as if they're owed something. You take guys like Ronnie Price, Matt Barnes, Mo Evans, Singelton, etc...and they will lay it on the floor, no matter their coach...every, single, night.

They're hungry. I can't say the same for most of the guys on our roster...which is really sad to me.

[ezekielbear]

The ONLY reason they lack desire is because it is OK to be that way. Someone's earlier allusion to how Popovich would handle this crap is instructive.

That was me. lol

People had the same gripe with Adelman running the ship as well tho...about their lack of desire.

[kennadog]

The ONLY reason they lack desire is because it is OK to be that way. Someone's earlier allusion to how Popovich would handle this crap is instructive.Pop has the credentials to back it up. A team has to believe in their coach, then they'll accept him as the leader. You don't get the respect just because the title's on your door. The players seemed to be behind Muss at the beginning, but its hard to keep your confidence in someone who looks so dejected and clueless half the time.

[chelle]

I do not see a lack of desire so much as I see a lack of knowing what the heck is going on out there. There is no doubt that these guys KNOW how to play. They just seem ill prepared for the games.
You can have an amazing and beautiful yacht, but if there is no navigator, you're going to be "lost at sea."

[ezekielbear]

Our roster isn't really tooled for Musselman's type of game either. What, game he has.

:|

[most_casual_observer]

That was me. lol

People had the same gripe with Adelman running the ship as well tho...about their lack of desire.

Good call. If we had inserted the 5 bench enders when the team fell asleep, maybe the message would have been received by the starters. One thing is sure, the result wouldn't have been any worse.

[D-Mass]

I do not see a lack of desire so much as I see a lack of knowing what the heck is going on out there. There is no doubt that these guys KNOW how to play. They just seem ill prepared for the games.
You can have an amazing and beautiful yacht, but if there is no navigator, you're going to be "lost at sea."

Our problem is that we have a rusted-out ferryboat without a navigator.

[ezekielbear]

There is no doubt that these guys KNOW how to play.

Bibby took an 18 foot fadeaway, 3 seconds out of a timeout with like 15 on the shot clock.

Musselman and Bibby are both to blame for that...but...I mean...Bibby has to know better then to take that shot.

And if Musselman ran that as a play, then, I should just shoot myself now.

[VF21]

They are all to blame. This isn't ALL the players fault...or just ALL the coaching staff. Musselman coached the same way in GS.

It's a combo of everything, IMO.

That said, these aren't 12 year old's playing in a rec league. If they can't play with desire, then get some guys that can. These guys take for granted they're in the league...as if they're owed something. You take guys like Ronnie Price, Matt Barnes, Mo Evans, Singelton, etc...and they will lay it on the floor, no matter their coach...every, single, night.

They're hungry. I can't say the same for most of the guys on our roster...which is really sad to me.

Well, I think you're disrespecting most of the team, which has shown sparks of what they can do IF they're not constantly in a state of flux. That falls on the coach. You can't continue to pull desire out of your arse if you try to play and are taken out of the game when you're doing everything right. After a few times, even the hungriest player would lose heart.

[VF21]

Bibby took an 18 foot fadeaway, 3 seconds out of a timeout with like 15 on the shot clock.

Musselman and Bibby are both to blame for that...but...I mean...Bibby has to know better then to take that shot.

And if Musselman ran that as a play, then, I should just shoot myself now.

That was ONE play. You don't know what Musselman said during the timeout. Maybe he gave Mike the green light. If he didn't he should have ripped Mike a new one...but he did no such thing. I think Bibby took the shot because he thought he could make it.

But we're not talking about one play or one instance. We're talking about an ever-increasing amount of evidence to support the allegations that Musselman is clueless - both about how to handle THIS team and how to handle himself.

[ezekielbear]

Well, I think you're disrespecting most of the team, which has shown sparks of what they can do IF they're not constantly in a state of flux. That falls on the coach. You can't continue to pull desire out of your arse if you try to play and are taken out of the game when you're doing everything right. After a few times, even the hungriest player would lose heart.

I guess we're gonna be stuck to agree to disagree...I just can't agree to that.

You play every down/play/at-bat like it's your last.

I have no problem losing.

I do have a problem when it looks like their is a lack of desire.

Watching us win 19 games a year was okay...because they tried. They sucked, but, they tried (for the most part). I just don't get that sense with this group, and haven't for a while (even with Adelman running the ship during his last season or so).

[most_casual_observer]

Pop has the credentials to back it up. A team has to believe in their coach, then they'll accept him as the leader. You don't get the respect just because the title's on your door. The players seemed to be behind Muss at the beginning, but its hard to keep your confidence in someone who looks so dejected and clueless half the time.

Management 101 says that you enter a new role with respect, automatically by virtue of your position, it is yours to lose...Muss has done some things early in his tenure to possibly scuttle his opportunity. That is tragic if true.

[VF21]

Good call. If we had inserted the 5 bench enders when the team fell asleep, maybe the message would have been received by the starters. One thing is sure, the result wouldn't have been any worse.

yeah, because everyone knows the best way to get a bunch of guys with egos the size of Texas to play together is to bench them for scrubs when they aren't even being given enough court time together to establish anything even remotely resembling a cohesive team chemistry.

It's the ridiculous substitutions, IMHO, and total lack of any kind of appearance of confidence in the team OR the players that is killing us right now... It won't get better if you just add more inconsistency to the mix.

[DaMan]

They are all to blame. This isn't ALL the players fault...or just ALL the coaching staff. Musselman coached the same way in GS.

It's a combo of everything, IMO.

That said, these aren't 12 year old's playing in a rec league. If they can't play with desire, then get some guys that can. These guys take for granted they're in the league...as if they're owed something. You take guys like Ronnie Price, Matt Barnes, Mo Evans, Singelton, etc...and they will lay it on the floor, no matter their coach...every, single, night.

They're hungry. I can't say the same for most of the guys on our roster...which is really sad to me.

I have to agree with u, we can't put all the blame on Muss. I put the blame on everybody frome the owners, the GM, the coach, and the players. The team is just awful and you can't put the blame on just one person.

[DaMan]

I like how people used to blame RA for not playing the bench and now people are blameing Muss for playing the bench.

[most_casual_observer]

I guess we're gonna be stuck to agree to disagree...I just can't agree to that.

You play every down/play/at-bat like it's your last.

I have no problem losing.

I do have a problem when it looks like their is a lack of desire.

Watching us win 19 games a year was okay...because they tried. They sucked, but, they tried (for the most part). I just don't get that sense with this group, and haven't for a while (even with Adelman running the ship during his last season or so).

Well said Zeke. I have been thinking the same thing all year. I would follow this team without complaint if they lost every game, as long as they showed some smarts and heart while losing. That isn't too much to ask in the pro game, is it? Many high school teams play with more savvy than we've been showing. It is a travesty.

[kennadog]

I have to agree with u, we can't put all the blame on Muss. I put the blame on everybody frome the owners, the GM, the coach, and the players. The team is just awful and you can't put the blame on just one person.Why not? There were an awful lot of people here that thought Adelman was most of the problem.:rolleyes:

[LMM]

I have to agree with u, we can't put all the blame on Muss. I put the blame on everybody frome the owners, the GM, the coach, and the players. The team is just awful and you can't put the blame on just one person.

If you're talking the whole season, then of course everyone is to blame. You definitely can't just blame one person.

The gripe with Muss is that he can't establish any sort of chemistry on the court because he's so inconsistent with his substitutions and such. I mean, whatever happened to Price? I seriously doubt getting Douby 3 minutes a game can really do much.

Artest has had nights of awful shot selection, off-court drama, etc.

Bibby's shot, until recently, was missing.

Etc.

Everyone on the team has flaws. Can't blame Muss alone, but his coaching is definitely part of the problem.

[ezekielbear]

I don't mind losing. It happens. Sometimes, a lot.

But, I just can't accept getting out hustled, out worked, and out desired.

There are going to be teams and players better then you...but...you still go out there, and go punch for punch with them. That's all most of us ask.

[fnordius]

I like how people used to blame RA for not playing the bench and now people are blameing Muss for playing the bench.

But Muss doesn't play the bench like most coaches do, he plays them like Russian Roulette.

[most_casual_observer]

yeah, because everyone knows the best way to get a bunch of guys with egos the size of Texas to play together is to bench them for scrubs when they aren't even being given enough court time together to establish anything even remotely resembling a cohesive team chemistry.

It's the ridiculous substitutions, IMHO, and total lack of any kind of appearance of confidence in the team OR the players that is killing us right now... It won't get better if you just add more inconsistency to the mix.

You are probably right, VF1, after all you have over 38,000 posts.:D

I think I may have expressed my intent better by saying Muss needs to take charge, similar to what you have been saying. If Muss can't run the team according to a decent plan, then he is the coach in name only and should leave soon.

[kennadog]

Watching us win 19 games a year was okay...because they tried. They sucked, but, they tried (for the most part). I just don't get that sense with this group, and haven't for a while (even with Adelman running the ship during his last season or so).I think that's a bit romanticized. Are you talking about the teams that used to welcome new Kings players to NBA hell? It was easier to watch, at least in part, because we didn't expect as much. Makes it a lot easier to watch a sucky team.

[ezekielbear]

Musselman has always coached this way. He had 8 guys (7 really, but, would have been 8 if not for Speedy's injury) that played in almost all 82 games his first season with the Warriors.

Then had 2-3 that played in about half (say like our Douby/Hart etc roto's)

[creAtivetfh]

expectations are a bitch

[ezekielbear]

I think that's a bit romanticized. Are you talking about the teams that used to welcome new Kings players to NBA hell? It was easier to watch, at least in part, because we didn't expect as much. Makes it a lot easier to watch a sucky team.

I never questioned Waymen, Spud, or Mitch's desire...

They gave it what they had...losing 55 a year or not.

[DaMan]

Why not? There were an awful lot of people here that thought Adelman was most of the problem.:rolleyes:

I didn't think RA was the whole problem last year, as with muss i think he was part of the problem and needed to go. The difference between RA and Muss is that RA actually had a set rotation and gameplan unlike Muss.

[DaMan]

expectations are a bitch

I just depends on what your expections where.

[VF21]

Musselman has always coached this way. He had 8 guys (7 really, but, would have been 8 if not for Speedy's injury) that played in almost all 82 games his first season with the Warriors.

Then had 2-3 that played in about half (say like our Douby/Hart etc roto's)

that's not the point at all. The point isn't how many players he uses, it's when and how he makes the substitutions. We used Bibby, Martin, Artest, KT, Miller, SAR, Corliss, Cisco, Douby and Salmons tonight. That's 10 players. We didn't use Hart, who may never see court time again after his ill-advised last nano-second three against the Sixers. We didn't see Price who has apparently fallen out of favor for some reason.

So again, it's not about his rotations as much as the total lack of anything even remotely resembling some kind of plan in who he substitutes and when.

[kennadog]

I didn't think RA was the whole problem last year, as with muss i think he was part of the problem and needed to go. The difference between RA and Muss is that RA actually had a set rotation and gameplan unlike Muss.I think most underestimated Adelman's talent for managing people. And that's a huge part of being a successful leader or coach.

[kennadog]

that's not the point at all. The point isn't how many players he uses, it's when and how he makes the substitutions. We used Bibby, Martin, Artest, KT, Miller, SAR, Corliss, Cisco, Douby and Salmons tonight. That's 10 players. We didn't use Hart, who may never see court time again after his ill-advised last nano-second three against the Sixers. We didn't see Price who has apparently fallen out of favor for some reason.

So again, it's not about his rotations as much as the total lack of anything even remotely resembling some kind of plan in who he substitutes and when.Exactly. I don't care if he plays everyone, if it looks well thought out and organized. I get the feeling sometimes that Muss is just making substitutions as a form of grasping at straws.

[DaMan]

I think most underestimated Adelman's talent for managing people. And that's a huge part of being a successful leader or coach.

True he was great at managing people such as artest and Bonzi but he was not doing to well until artest came to town.

[kennadog]

True he was great at managing people such as artest and Bonzi but he was not doing to well until artest came to town.Agreed. But Muss has Artest. And Kevin's been pretty good in place of Bonzi. I don't think Muss has a whole lot less talent than RA ended last season with.

On the other hand, Muss is brand new here. Believe it or not, I'm not going to start a "fire Musselman" thread. But the guy just looks clueless and looks like he gives up. I am not happy with that.

[ezekielbear]

So again, it's not about his rotations as much as the total lack of anything even remotely resembling some kind of plan in who he substitutes and when.

I think you missed what I was trying to say.

He had his core of 7-8 guys that played in all games, and had a mess of other reserves who played for no given reason.

He coached very similar in GS in terms of roto's and his randomness.

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

And, unless I'm mistaken, he lost coaching like that in Oakland, too.

What's that definition of crazy? Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results?

[kennadog]

And, unless I'm mistaken, he lost coaching like that in Oakland, too.

What's that definition of crazy? Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results?Its either the definition of crazy or stupid.;)

[gofastws99]

I didn't think RA was the whole problem last year, as with muss i think he was part of the problem and needed to go. The difference between RA and Muss is that RA actually had a set rotation and gameplan unlike Muss.

Yes but RA sometimes used his set rotation and game plan to completly run us out of a game. No rotation or subs, even when guys were wore out. Muss messes up, but to me:confused: he is trying to see who fits with who and can play together. Doesn't have alot to play with. Sometimes it fits sometimes it don't. I do agree on his setting there with his head down when he should be chewin on someones a!@. Not good.

[Lamar_Odom]

Its either the definition of crazy or stupid.;)

It's the definition of foolishness, actually.

[Widowmaker2k]

We didn't use Hart, who may never see court time again after his ill-advised last nano-second

Wow, that's pretty crazy. What happened?

[VF21]

There were about 12 seconds left in the game against the Sixers when the Kings inbounded. Hart got the ball to walk out the end of the game. The score was 98-76. As the clock wound down, Hart turned and just before the buzzer shot and made a three-point shot. His own teammates glared at him... having been on the receiving end of something like that not too long ago.