Kings @ Wolves Game Thread

[piksi]

This time I am not really going to try to predict anything because it did not go well last time against the Minnesota.
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Obviously, a very tough one. It will be a real test for the 2.0 version of the GO KINGS thread power so my suggestion - visit there if You have not done that today. Kings have proven many times that they are able to win big games (unless it is a game 7 ) in the last 6 years. There is absolute no reason why we should not be able to win it tonight. Will it be a nailbitter - almost guaranteed. Are they a deeper team - yes. They have KG and Golumn and several versions of Pippi Longstockings and a mad dog and mayors and other wierd characters in their team. I still like our chances
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Keys to the game are many and every single one can make a difference tonight.

Good start is crucial. I remember several games here in which we had bad starts. None of them ended any good. Games were almost over at the halftime.

Rebounding (what a surprise). Everything up to -5 favores us.

Pick and roll - on both sides. Our defence is horrible but so is theirs when it comes to pick and roll. Any combination of Pedja, Mike with Brad or CW
is good. I do not see how we can stop their because Mike can not even guard a chair even withouth weels.

Do not miss lay ups tonight - This goes to Pedja mostly and Darius, DC partially
Blocks - again Pedja, Brad, Darius

both of those last 2 points are such a momentum killers

Somebody please guard Eddy Griffin

Do not let Pedja disappear because he will try

Hit freethrows

Make sure that game- and shot clock are working properly tonight:eek:
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When it comes to players -if only afford one player have a off night it might not be enough

Mike - stop talking to TNT crew. Waste of time. Please somebody show Mike the tape of the game 1 of the last PO series. Come on Mike - guard somebody or something tonight please.

Pedja - it is OK to score in all 4 quarters not just in the 1st and 3rd. It is absolutely not wrong to grab a rebound more than 3 times in the game. It is OK to dunk a ball. Keep up the D

CW - You had a week off. We need Your best tonight - You can rest tomorow. You have to make sure the ball is moving. Write down Griffin's number if You can nor remember please. Get to the line and hit the FTs.

DC - nothing wrong with "borowing the ball without permission" couple more times than usual. Please do not try too much on offense. Such turnovers are momentum killers. Find Pedja.

Brad - just 2 days from a hunting trip. You need to have a good game against Minessota. It is wrong to be outrebounded by a 6 foot tall player. It is wrong to be blocked by a 6 foot player. It is more than OK to set a nasty screen on any of the opponent players.

Bobby - it is OK to pass the ball sometimes. Other than that just go for it.

Tag - You have 6 fouls - use them , use them all if needed.

Darius - You need to make the "put backs" that You might get.

If other players including Barnes get to play longer than 5 minutes - we will lose the game.
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RA - do not wait for 10 - run to call a timeout. If a player gets hot - it is Ok to keep going to him and to keep him in the game. It is more than OK to yell at players if the suck
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Referrees - It is OK to call illegal screens and traveling violations on KG (what are the chances of that happening ?). It is not OK to hold , grab etc a player just because he is more talented.
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Minessota - do anything neccessary to lose the game

[ReinadelosReys]

My keys to the game:

1) Bigs play big...meaning: Someone give Chris Webber a brush and send him to the paint. Brad, Tag, you guys are eons better than any C's the Wolves will throw out there, play like it. This includes Peja, you're 6'10 for crying out loud. Anyone guarding you is 6'5!!

2)Bibbity Bobbity Boom- Haven't seen those two go off in typical point of action form...Now would be a good time.

3) No World...meaning: Lets trying to not let someone have an "All-world" night of production this time.

GO KINGS :D

[HndsmCelt]

These teams match up rellay well but the Kings SHOULD have the edge. Keys to a Kings win:
1. Fight for Boards. OK Webb is back in the line up and that should take some presure off of the guys who picked up the slack againt the cats, but every guy in purple should be looking for loose balls and rebounds. If the Kings can beat the wolves or only give up say 5 boards they win.

2. Make the other guys beat us. Webb and Miller have been able to Keep Garnet bussy about as well as anyone, and DC can gaurd Spree, Pedja is looking like one of our best defenders these days and he ought to be albe to make Wally work for evey shot. So that leave Candy man and Castell. Candy should NOT get an advantage over either Webb or Brad and well Bibby is Bibby so Make Casell beat us... gaurd the paint and force more shots from the 15 feet. AND REBOUND.

3. Bench production. Bobby and Darius ARE the bench offense. These two guys have to not only rest starters but they need to score. Tag can handle the boards and close down the paint, but it's up to these two to capitalize on moments when Garnet, and Sam are out. Barnes, too please f you see court time.

4. Spread the floor! If Pedja and Mike can get the outside shots to fall early then the Wolves can't play close to the hoop and this will allow Webb and Brad to play close and gobble up boards.

[SacKings384]

Guard Griffin!!!

[Insomniacal Fan]

Get KG and Cassell in foul trouble. Heckle Sprewell.

[webberfan]

Guard Griffin!!!
i'd like to see christie on cassell come the fourth quarter.

[iheartBrad]

im totally with the "guard Griffin" comments...i believe he is the reason that the wolves actually won that game....but i don't think Hoiberg lit us up...(if i remember correctly) so im a little bit concerned about him making a cameo in the game...they can't forget to stay with him and always have a hand in his face cuz if he sees light...he's gonna kill us

[LMM]

^^ oh god, me too.. i watched minny's last game (@philly) griffin was just on fire with those flat-footed threes!!! man! he's the 4th best 3ptshtr in the league right now, i think.. the 1st is hoiberg, from minny again.. and cassell and spreewell are perfectly capable of going on hot streaks.. so we have to guard the 3 pt line..

someone needs to guard cassell, especially in the 4th..

[JayBird]

Key to the game: make sure the clock is working.

[Andriod_KiNg]

Get KG and Cassell in foul trouble. Heckle Sprewell. Yea good point, if we run iso.'s with Webber or Bibby , they can baet KG and Cassell and maybe force them to foul.

[piksi]

If any of You think that KG will get into foul trouble at his home floor - get real and think again

[Evenstar]

my keys to the game are that everyone else needs to be stopped. KG will get his, he ALWAYS does, that is why he is the MVP. but HE didn't do a damn thing unti he had the all stars cassell, spree etc etc surroudning him. shut those guys down, and the kings will win. oh and someone guard griffen that would be nice.

bibby MUST BUST OUT!!!!! at least 20 points would be nice, if he could REALLY bust out and flirt with 30 points, that would be GREAT. he must score as many as gollum does since neither ( starrting) PG will be playing any D

webber can equal the points KG has. do that. it will make KG less effective. try to board with him as well. with all the time off, seeing oh 15 boards or so would be GREAT!

peja needs to have a 4 quarter game ( ok right like that is going to happen :D) well at least bust hassell defensivly. score at least 20!!!!

I BELIEVE!!!! LETS GO KINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Whit Eboy]

Wolves must pay back!!!!!!!!

Kings GOGOGO

[Lazio84]

no pbp today??? ??

[piksi]

Not even 3 minutes into the game - allready getting killed on the boards :mad:

[LMM]

^^ jelement is doing a pbp in the chatroom

[piksi]

no pbp today??? ??

VF21 probably still working. My connection not good enough.

5-6 Minn

rebounds

-5

4 minutes played

[Bricklayer]

We're getting creamed on the boards by Garnett, but here we are ahead.


Back to back dunk by Webb, who was looking tentaive qwith the knee, and then jsut started attacking the hoop.

[piksi]

11-7 Kings after 5 :30 in the first

5-10 rebounding deficit

Kings 5 assisit on 5 FGs

[piksi]

looks like Mike came to play tonight

[RaY Z]

kings up 20-9

shooting foul on miller wolves to the line for 2...

[Bricklayer]

I would not have expected this -- we're attacking the rim against this team despite the shotblockers.

[LMM]

looks like Mike came to play tonight
very nice to read that

hope he does it for 4 qtrs

[RaY Z]

griffin hits 1-2....

bibby misses 19ft jumper...

team rebound kings...

aldeman calls a to...

kings 20-10

[LMM]

I would not have expected this -- we're attacking the rim against this team despite the shotblockers.
oooh very nice to read that, too!

and i also hope they keep it up for 4 whole quarters :)

[Insomniacal Fan]

I would not have expected this -- we're attacking the rim against this team despite the shotblockers.
Hmm, maybe we're trying to get their main players into foul trouble... nah, that's a silly idea :-)

[xrzn]

^^ jelement is doing a pbp in the chatroom
Where is the chatroom?

[Whit Eboy]

what's the score, the socre board of nba official website is too sloooooooooooooooow

[RaY Z]

peja for 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kings 28-16

darius fouls kg to the line for two...

hits both 28-18 kings

otag in for darius...

[piksi]

Somebody please guard eddy griffin

[RaY Z]

kg steals ball from webber but bibby steals ball back from hoiberg...

end of 1st qtr...

KINGS UP 28-18

GOOD START!!! KEEP IT UP!!!

GO KINGS!!

[piksi]

Only King player without a rebound is - Pedja

[Whit Eboy]

looks miller and songalia both have foul trouble.

keep kg out of the paint, kings can gain more rebs

[RaY Z]

why o why has aldeman benched peha when his shot is freakin hot!!!!????

[piksi]

Garnett had a double double in the first quarter

[Whit Eboy]

who are playing now?

[RaY Z]

interesting to note that the wolves starting lineup are all on the bench as of now...

[piksi]

why o why has aldeman benched peha when his shot is freakin hot!!!!????

I assue that she is still at work.

We have a PBP thread so if it is too much for You - it would be OK. If not - please continue so.

[piksi]

interesting to note that the wolves starting lineup are all on the bench as of now...


Our lead promptly decreased

[Bricklayer]

what the hell is up with Bobby?

lookd like he's hihg or something. Just bizarre.

[RaY Z]

kings up 33-26...

miller fouls woles to liune for two...

wolves call to...

[Whit Eboy]

kings up 33-26...

miller fouls woles to liune for two...

wolves call to...
miller has his third?

no way!!!

[LMM]

Where is the chatroom?well if you have mirc

type: /server irc.bludgeon.org

then: /join #kingsfans

[piksi]

what the hell is up with Bobby?

lookd like he's hihg or something. Just bizarre.

I was asking myself the sae thing

[RaY Z]

kings up 35-30

[piksi]

Our current lineup sucks. Can RA take a hint ?

[Bricklayer]

they're getting it back together -- Bobby and Barnes in particualr have setled down after ugly starts

[LMM]

15 FTa for minn.. only 4 for sac

[Bricklayer]

Here come the troops.

[piksi]

only -2 in rebounding :cool:

[Lazio84]

whats the chat server plz

[LMM]

well if you have mirc

type: /server irc.bludgeon.org

then: /join #kingsfans

[mazzystar]

Question for those watching, Whats up with the kings having so many fouls?

[piksi]

Fouls

Kings 12

Wolves 5

:eek:

[Bricklayer]

what a disastrous lineup experiment that turned out to be

[hoops4kings]

Horrible.

[Bricklayer]

Question for those watching, Whats up with the kings having so many fouls?
Garnett is just tearing us up inside.

Rick got so desperate he tried a Webber/Peja frontline against Kandi/Garnett -- leaving Peja on KG. :eek:

[LMM]

Fouls

Kings 12

Wolves 5

:eek:
wow!

and they're +12 in FTs attempted (+10 in FTs made)

[piksi]

We worked hard and got nothing to show for.

COME ON KINGS

[hoops4kings]

That was a foul? LOL!

[Heuge]

Pedja needs to re-appear.

[piksi]

At Half

Good Things:

6 pts lead

Solid D

Solid shooting

Bad things:

Cassel and Spreewel did not do anything

Foul toruble

-7 rb

Webber too many jumpers

Small lineup :mad:

[LMM]

i guess mike's late night practice is paying off..

he's 5/8 for 15 pts at the half..

good job so far..

[piksi]

Pedja needs to re-appear.

well he is a third man in the 2 man gaMe. Somebody needs to give him the ball sometimes.

[LMM]

KG has 13 rebs.. our starters combined have 13 rebs..

not good

[Heuge]

well he is a third man in the 2 man gaMe. Somebody needs to give him the ball sometimes.
it is HIS job to get open. run through screens etc.

[piksi]

it is HIS job to get open. run through screens etc.

They were not even looking for anybody else in the last 5 minutes of the first half. NOBODY else got a shot off.

[Bricklayer]

KG has 13 rebs.. our starters combined have 13 rebs..

not good
Webber really does nto have hs legs tonight, despite his attacking the hoop a number of times in the first half. And the rest of the frontocurt is sad as always. If not for Mike and Doug coming back and grabbing a few we'd be REALLY getting slaughtered on the glass.

[Viking]

Call a foul on Garnett!

[hoops4kings]

We're getting jobbed on ticky tack foul calls tonight.

[LMM]

Call a foul on Garnett!
starters fouls 12-5 kings

doug has 4
miller has 3
webb and peja with 2 each

KG has 0 of course :)

[Viking]

Bojax 3!

[Viking]

Bojax buzzerbeater 3!

[ChenZy]

BoBBy jackson!!!

[Viking]

Bobby is on FIRE from downtown!

[Viking]

Now we're quite lucky Bobby was firing on all cylinders with the game tied...

[Viking]

PFs:

Miller 4
Christie 4
Songaila 4

...Garnett 1

[Viking]

Check that, Songaila 5.

[Bibby_Is_Clutch]

CWebb is keeping us in it along with BJax

[Viking]

Gah Guard Hoiberg!!!

[Heuge]

There is a bouble around Garnett. Call it even refs.

[poise]

whatta pass by KG.

11/11 from the stripe, we should stop fouling him on those stupid jumpshots.

and we need mike! and peja!

[Viking]

T-Wolves have 12 more FT attempts...

[KingsChick]

not.. much..time..left!

[piksi]

Live by the 2 man game - .....

[KingsChick]

05:23 left

[Heuge]

Live by the 2 man game - .....die by the refs

[KingsChick]

and its 101 to 97

[poise]

those friggin refs!

[Viking]

Miller has to hit his FTs...

[Heuge]

its 6 on 5

[Viking]

It's about over.

[KingsChick]

don't let them get on a run!

[hoops4kings]

Ball game. Same ol Same ol. Find a way to lose to Minny.

[mazzystar]

wow peja with 12 whole points...

[Viking]

its 6 on 5
Don't they have 2 (3?) refs?












;)

[poise]

Someone needs to step up!...

[Bballkingsrock]

It's about over.
What the heck are u talking about? It is not even close to it being over. Just watch.

[Viking]

Key word: about.

I hope we can pull this one out, but momentum has to swing BIG TIME.

I'm still listening to the game, faithful we can win :)

[hoops4kings]

Embarrassing. Total collapse.

[piksi]

wow peja with 12 whole points...

8 shots - 12 pts is pretty good.

[Viking]

...Wolves by 9


...Wolves by 11

[sloter]

... and perhaps this is why Pedja said that he thought that the window has closed. All those wins against Bulls, Nuggets, or Pacers of the league are useless when the Kings cannot beat the best teams in the league... Perhaps if Minny eliminates San Antonio and Dallas eliminates Minnesotta...

[Heuge]

Pedja has found a way to play hide and seek on the court.

[Viking]

Webb, what the hell was that?

Have you given up?

Brad misses another FT!

[mazzystar]

OMG..Why has Cwebb taken the last umpteenth shots???? Sheesus..

[Mad D]

wow is this 2001-2002. I havent seen 4th quarter execution this ****ty since the 02 series.

[living legend]

Kings can't hang with the elite teams for 4 quarters.. Should have kept Peja involved who was hot early in the game.. Oh well..

[Viking]

It's over now.






Complete embarrassment.


Just Sad.






I really can't stand Kevin Garnett.

[piksi]

Pedja has found a way to play hide and seek on the court.


Webber and Bibby found the way yet again to kill the whole game flow of the Kings tonight. They needed one ball just for themselves.

[KingsChick]

Can we call it a night?

[poise]

chockers.

where the hell is doug?

[RaY Z]

Freakin Hel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I Hate The Freakin Timberwolves... Losers!!!! Arrrrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Heuge]

Webber and Bibby found the way yet again to kill the whole game flow of the Kings tonight. They needed one ball just for themselves.
Watch the freaking game, he is not moving without the ball.

[KingsChick]

:confused: NOW they score WHOO they have 101

[piksi]

Kings can't hang with the elite teams for 4 quarters.. Should have kept Peja involved who was hot early in the game.. Oh well..


praise our 2 man game by the 2 worst defenders in Kings history

[sloter]

Webber and Bibby found the way yet again to kill the whole game flow of the Kings tonight. They needed one ball just for themselves.

Wow, by looking at the last 3 minutes of PBP you wouldn't think Webber is one of the best power forwards in the league...

[KingsChick]

The Streak Is Always Ruined By The "wolves!

[Mad D]

Webber and Bibby found the way yet again to kill the whole game flow of the Kings tonight. They needed one ball just for themselves.I thought it was more of Webber and Bobby



...and the TWolves crowd cheers for its 3rd time tonight

[sloter]

...AND Pedja gets the rebound to bring it up to his season average of FOUR!!! SUPER!

[KingsChick]

forget it.

[Heuge]

Wow, by looking at the last 3 minutes of PBP you wouldn't think Webber is one of the best power forwards in the league...He not.
But he sure works well with this TEAM.

[Viking]

Wow, by looking at the last 3 minutes of PBP you wouldn't think Webber is one of the best power forwards in the league...

Webber is my favourite player and I admit - tonight he really screwed it up, or at least contributed to it.

[piksi]

Watch the freaking game, he is not moving without the ball.

who can blame him - why wast the energy when You are not going to get a ball

[hoops4kings]

This team at this point just can't finish against the best teams. Just gonna have to accept that this year is no different than last year unfortunately.

[living legend]

praise our 2 man game by the 2 worst defenders in Kings history
No doubt about that.... Good news, Webber is bound to break down eventually.. give or take 10-15 more games.. Maybe things will turn around.. Then again, maybe not.

[Viking]

And now I get to hear about Hoiberg's greatness.... JOY.

[Heuge]

Webber is my favourite player and I admit - tonight he really screwed it up, or at least contributed to it.25-7-7 I cant wait till he doesnt screw up.

[sloter]

Garnett with a season high quarter in assists: 5. That's what I call clutch.

[Viking]

Statistically he was great - he just played REALLY stupid down the stretch. He's capable of taking this team on his back and he just flat out didn't.


(Then again the entire team played real stupid.)

[Heuge]

Statistically he was great - he just played REALLY stupid down the stretch.
True

[piksi]

25-7-7 I cant wait till he doesnt screw up.

on 26 shots and 4 TOs

Player he guarded

35 - 17 - 9

[Stojakovic]

25-7-7 I cant wait till he doesnt screw up.
Meh ... statistics in Webb's case aren't worth much.

When a player takes 26 shots and scores 25 points, the whole scoring stat goes down the drain. I'll take those 7 assists though.

[Heuge]

on 26 shots and 4 TOs

Player he guarded

35 - 17 - 9
The player he is gaurding is the best player in the world. Not fair to compare Webb to Garnet.

[Heuge]

I can blame him; there's no excuse for him to not move without the ball. His petulance is unacceptable; not getting as many shots as he wants is not a valid reason for him to play half-assed.

Say whatever you want about his teammates not getting him the ball, but he needs to play as good as he can play every night; if he's not playing his best, he has no right to complain.I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought that.

[bozzwell]

I can blame him; there's no excuse for him to not move without the ball. His petulance is unacceptable; not getting as many shots as he wants is not a valid reason for him to play half-assed.

Say whatever you want about his teammates not getting him the ball, but he needs to play as good as he can play every night; if he's not playing his best, he has no right to complain.

I personally think that I have a very valid point to mitigate Pedja's perfomance to a certain point but I will not bother now. As you've pointed out, his petulence - especially in 4th quarter - is inexusable as it was obvious. Despite RA pulling him off for all of 20 seconds (if that) to send him a message he came back and carried on with it. UN-effin'-believable.

[Zyphen]

Been lurking for a month and finally decided to post. Just got validation only yesterday else I woulda started off under happier circumstances (i.e. before a loss). Of course this means I start unleashing criticism like the several dozen other know-it-alls on this board (or any board for that matter).

C-Webb: Obvious he was looking for a statement game. The guy wanted to be the man against a championship quality team. Unfortunately, his body won't let him be that man anymore. Nice effort Webb, but time to come back down to earth. Those jumpers woulda went in if you had those 3 extra inches back.

Now Peja... I don't understand how so many people can stick up for this guy? It makes me think if these fans are really Kings fans or just Peja fans? If Peja left tomorrow would these "fans" still be Kings fans or would they be <insert Peja's new team> fans? He demands a trade and has stuck to his demand through the months. I knew from the start of the season that he wasn't going to bring it all to the table. He was just going to bring enough to satisfy his contractual obligations and save his efforts and health for when he gets traded. He'll keep his shooting numbers up to not diminish his value but he's definitely not going to put in any extra hustle or rebounding. That kind of stuff can get you hurt. This game has just been a microcosm of his psychosis (for lack of a better word).

It's a shame too cause I really liked Peja before this season... But until the guy shows and/or says he really wants to be a King, he's half-dead to me already. I don't want anyone on my team to shoot for his stats rather than for the team's benefit. Maybe this is an unfair perception caused by the Peja homers, though.

So with this self-inflicted sluggishness, it's not surprising he's not getting as many shots. He doesn't make the extra effort to get more space. Plus, he can't create his own shot so his shot attempts won't be high in the first place. You can't just throw it to him like you do Mcgrady and have him go at it. He's a shooter. Maybe the best shooter in the league, but that's the extent of his game.

Webber played stupid last year coming off an injury. It took him a long time to figure out his limitations and he's definitely gotten smarter about it this year (cept for this game). But in the end I'm just bashing a guy who really wants to win and gives the Kings everything he's got on 1 leg. Meanwhile Peja already has 1 leg out the door.

[piksi]

Been lurking for a month and finally decided to post. Just got validation only yesterday else I woulda started off under happier circumstances (i.e. before a loss). Of course this means I start unleashing criticism like the several dozen other know-it-alls on this board (or any board for that matter).

C-Webb: Obvious he was looking for a statement game. The guy wanted to be the man against a championship quality team. Unfortunately, his body won't let him be that man anymore. Nice effort Webb, but time to come back down to earth. Those jumpers woulda went in if you had those 3 extra inches back.

Now Peja... I don't understand how so many people can stick up for this guy? It makes me think if these fans are really Kings fans or just Peja fans? If Peja left tomorrow would these "fans" still be Kings fans or would they be <insert Peja's new team> fans? He demands a trade and has stuck to his demand through the months. I knew from the start of the season that he wasn't going to bring it all to the table. He was just going to bring enough to satisfy his contractual obligations and save his efforts and health for when he gets traded. He'll keep his shooting numbers up to not diminish his value but he's definitely not going to put in any extra hustle or rebounding. That kind of stuff can get you hurt. This game has just been a microcosm of his psychosis (for lack of a better word).

It's a shame too cause I really liked Peja before this season... But until the guy shows and/or says he really wants to be a King, he's half-dead to me already. I don't want anyone on my team to shoot for his stats rather than for the team's benefit. Maybe this is an unfair perception caused by the Peja homers, though.

So with this self-inflicted sluggishness, it's not surprising he's not getting as many shots. He doesn't make the extra effort to get more space. Plus, he can't create his own shot so his shot attempts won't be high in the first place. You can't just throw it to him like you do Mcgrady and have him go at it. He's a shooter. Maybe the best shooter in the league, but that's the extent of his game.

Webber played stupid last year coming off an injury. It took him a long time to figure out his limitations and he's definitely gotten smarter about it this year (cept for this game). But in the end I'm just bashing a guy who really wants to win and gives the Kings everything he's got on 1 leg. Meanwhile Peja already has 1 leg out the door.


I can live with this.

The question is - how did we get here ?

[Zyphen]

Ask Peja. I'm having trouble with "cause Vlade left". I'm still holding hope there's other reasons cause this would smash most of my respect for him as a professional athlete. Some people have said he's partly not bringing his full effort because if the Kings do real well this year without Vlade, it wouldn't have been seen as a bad decision (and therefore making Vlade look bad). I'm holding out hope Peja is not that petty. But I really don't believe him and Chris hate each other either.

The guy has also said "anywhere but here" so he obviously doesn't care that much about winning a championship, which is consistent with his playoff performances.

I say management should bribe the guy... up your hustle and rebounding and we'll guarantee a trade in the offseason. The alternative is settle up his personal issues but that is easier said than done and not really the business of a professional organization in the first place.

[bozzwell]

Ask Peja. I'm having trouble with "cause Vlade left". I'm still holding hope there's other reasons cause this would smash most of my respect for him as a professional athlete. Some people have said he's partly not bringing his full effort because if the Kings do real well this year without Vlade, it wouldn't have been seen as a bad decision (and therefore making Vlade look bad). I'm holding out hope Peja is not that petty. But I really don't believe him and Chris hate each other either.

The guy has also said "anywhere but here" so he obviously doesn't care that much about winning a championship, which is consistent with his playoff performances.

I say management should bribe the guy... up your hustle and rebounding and we'll guarantee a trade in the offseason. The alternative is settle up his personal issues but that is easier said than done and not really the business of a professional organization in the first place.

I guess your theories about why Pedja is not performing are as good as next person's. We just don't know and I certainly hope that Pedja does know. However, ever from my "distance" I simply don't believe that it is "because Vlade left". If there was some sinister plot to make sure that Vlade is not retained and Pedja was privvy to it then yes, I could imagine how he would be resentfull and distrustfull of the organization. But we know for a fact that there was nothing even approaching that (from Vlade's interviews with both Serbian and US media). I also don't buy that "anywhere but here" BS. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Petrie and the Kings save his career (when Skiles helped convince Pedja to move to US and have his leg surgically repaired afer breaking it in Greece)?

I see no reason for him to be that pissed of with the organization. Players - maybe. Adelman - possibly. Kings - how and why? And that is what really bothers me about Pedja's whole 'tude: "Give me my ball, I am going home".

To answer your previous question about Pedja fans/boosters: Most, if not all of us are native Serbs or Serbian-Americans/Canadians. To us (right or wrong) Pedja is almost like a national treasure and more then a sports "idol". Whether that approach is at all healthy and how it came to be is best not discussed here. With that out of the way, I can say with complete honesty and in absolute confidence that if Pedja leaves the Kings I will still be a Kings fan and I will still be a Pedja fan. I started following Kings bball because of Vlade and I still like Vlade but Lakers??? Come on... I can't even watch League Pass games when Kings are not on...

[Zyphen]

I'll concede to your info on Vlade since I didn't look into that in-depth, and like I said, didn't want to believe in it in the first place. However, the "anywhere but here" thing is real. Not BS. I can probably dig up the exact quote and I expect other people know what I'm talking about as well. He pretty much said that straight out in an interview. He didn't care where he went. He wanted a "fresh start". Maybe he's changed his stance since then about particular teams, but he did say those words.

I kind of suspected the whole thing about Serbs and Pedja. It helps me understand some of the commentary. I hope those people also understand that a team like the Kings is a much better fit for him than most others in the league. I can't imagine Pedja doing well on teams that don't focus that much on the perimeter game or ones that go for those 80 point, grinding, defensive games. A lot of the observations about his individual accomplishments and how to improve them come at the expense of the Kings' game as a whole. The team's success has always been focused on several points of attack and group cohesion on the offense. The more you up Pedja's focus, the more it becomes like a 1-man team such as the Sixers or Magic of last year. The reason Pedja gets all those good looks and that high scoring stat is because teams have to respect the offensive capabilities of the other Kings as well. If Pedja becomes the focal point to the point where his teammates start to deteriorate, it will hurt his game and the King's game. He'll start getting doubleteamed cause no one will respect Bibby's or Webb's shots.

[bozzwell]

I'll concede to your info on Vlade since I didn't look into that in-depth, and like I said, didn't want to believe in it in the first place. However, the "anywhere but here" thing is real. Not BS. I can probably dig up the exact quote and I expect other people know what I'm talking about as well. He pretty much said that straight out in an interview. He didn't care where he went. He wanted a "fresh start". Maybe he's changed his stance since then about particular teams, but he did say those words.


Just to clarify: I called BS on Pedja not on you/your posting. Pedja's petulent BS that I do not believe for a moment. He said and he was BS-ing. He also strongly denied any interest in the Bulls which was attributed to him after making positive comments about Chicago and Skiles (his old coach from Greece). I don't believe for the moment that he would be a happy Bull.


I kind of suspected the whole thing about Serbs and Pedja. It helps me understand some of the commentary. I hope those people also understand that a team like the Kings is a much better fit for him than most others in the league. I can't imagine Pedja doing well on teams that don't focus that much on the perimeter game or ones that go for those 80 point, grinding, defensive games. A lot of the observations about his individual accomplishments and how to improve them come at the expense of the Kings' game as a whole. The team's success has always been focused on several points of attack and group cohesion on the offense. The more you up Pedja's focus, the more it becomes like a 1-man team such as the Sixers or Magic of last year. The reason Pedja gets all those good looks and that high scoring stat is because teams have to respect the offensive capabilities of the other Kings as well. If Pedja becomes the focal point to the point where his teammates start to deteriorate, it will hurt his game and the King's game. He'll start getting doubleteamed cause no one will respect Bibby's or Webb's shots.

Agreed. Pedja is best suited to Princeton offence or similar and he developed fast track (compared to for example Drazen Petrovic who languished in Portland or Radmanovic in Seattle until this year). In fact, I don't really care for NBA style basketball other then Kings and a few other teams who can move the ball to find an open man. That is maybe why so many of us "Pedja fans" are so antagonistic. We know this is it, this is as good as it gets, but... ;)

[kingskings!]

Been lurking for a month and finally decided to post. Just got validation only yesterday else I woulda started off under happier circumstances (i.e. before a loss). Of course this means I start unleashing criticism like the several dozen other know-it-alls on this board (or any board for that matter).

C-Webb: Obvious he was looking for a statement game. The guy wanted to be the man against a championship quality team. Unfortunately, his body won't let him be that man anymore. Nice effort Webb, but time to come back down to earth. Those jumpers woulda went in if you had those 3 extra inches back.

Now Peja... I don't understand how so many people can stick up for this guy? It makes me think if these fans are really Kings fans or just Peja fans? If Peja left tomorrow would these "fans" still be Kings fans or would they be <insert Peja's new team> fans? He demands a trade and has stuck to his demand through the months. I knew from the start of the season that he wasn't going to bring it all to the table. He was just going to bring enough to satisfy his contractual obligations and save his efforts and health for when he gets traded. He'll keep his shooting numbers up to not diminish his value but he's definitely not going to put in any extra hustle or rebounding. That kind of stuff can get you hurt. This game has just been a microcosm of his psychosis (for lack of a better word).

It's a shame too cause I really liked Peja before this season... But until the guy shows and/or says he really wants to be a King, he's half-dead to me already. I don't want anyone on my team to shoot for his stats rather than for the team's benefit. Maybe this is an unfair perception caused by the Peja homers, though.

So with this self-inflicted sluggishness, it's not surprising he's not getting as many shots. He doesn't make the extra effort to get more space. Plus, he can't create his own shot so his shot attempts won't be high in the first place. You can't just throw it to him like you do Mcgrady and have him go at it. He's a shooter. Maybe the best shooter in the league, but that's the extent of his game.

Webber played stupid last year coming off an injury. It took him a long time to figure out his limitations and he's definitely gotten smarter about it this year (cept for this game). But in the end I'm just bashing a guy who really wants to win and gives the Kings everything he's got on 1 leg. Meanwhile Peja already has 1 leg out the door.

Hogwash...pure and total bull****...you've pretty much bashed both of the Kings best players without providing any backup for your take. Too bad you didn't know yesterday that you'd been approved YESTERDAY or you could have started off on a better footing.

Please withdraw your pointing stick and try again. Honest, I'll give your posts another tryout before I hit the "ignore" button.

Your take on Webber is absurd, your assumption that anyone who is a fan of Peja must be Serbian is racist...your posts are extremely offensive and I sincerely hope that I don't run up against another one of them.


KK!

[BigWaxer]

I so want to comment but I am kinda speechless right now.

We owned that game for 42 min... But really is anyone surprised at what happened?

[Evenstar]

whata finish.....

* throws self down the stairs*


( oh wait i don't have stairs anymore :D ;) )

man oh man, i had the "pleasure" of listening to that 4th QT on the radio, i should have stuck to the spongebob squarepants jokes the kids i were babysitting were telling me...

these kinds of losses REALLY tick me off, and REALLY ruin my mood. to be so good for so long in the game, and to just give it up.... yucko!

and what also ticks me off is the pacers are on a huge losing streak, and are due to win sometime. IT BETTER NOT BE TOMMORROW!!!!!

[GoGoGadget]

We owned that game for 42 min... But really is anyone surprised at what happened?
Yeah, I'm surprised.

I'm surprised every time it happens.

I'll be surprised again the next time it happens.

But, that's blind optimism for ya.

[sloter]

In fact, I don't really care for NBA style basketball other then Kings and a few other teams who can move the ball to find an open man. That is maybe why so many of us "Pedja fans" are so antagonistic. We know this is it, this is as good as it gets, but... ;)Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner here! In fact, up until last season it was almost unimaginable (even by some members here) that a team without a true superstar, but an actual TEAM could win it all. Thank GOD Detroit and all those flat footed unathletic guys in the Olympics proved them wrong. My prediction is that in the next 5-10 years the game will change and will be a lot more team and less superstar oriented.

[sloter]

Your take on Webber is absurd, your assumption that anyone who is a fan of Peja must be Serbian is racist...your posts are extremely offensive and I sincerely hope that I don't run up against another one of them.

Not sure about the Webber part, but I do not feel one bit offended about Serbian Pedja fans part. There's a lot of truth to it; although I can careless now whether Pedja is Serbian, American, Croatian, Kazak, or Afghan, the reason why I started following him was because Sacramento Kings was the only team with 2 Serbs in it.
Don't you worry about the feelings of the Serbs, we've been to a lot of really nasty things in the last 15 years and calling this little post racist is ridicilous.

[punisher]

The problem is not the Princeton offence, nor the "we need to motivate Peja" thing...offence works but you have to use it to make it work, you just don't run this team by overplaying pick'n'roll...
First of all, the 4th period speaks volumes, and I too will say it was mainly offense or to be more exact the lack of its production that decided the game, despite the obvious defensive lapses on Cassell and Hassell and the +35 points delivered...
That Adelman blunder with Webb at c and Peja at pf was just too awful. You never ever do those kinds of experiments on a team such as Wolves, they (as proven last night) are smart enough to take advantage of those and take the momentum away. I realize the foul trouble but it Adelman had Songaila, it was a logical thing to do...
Peja had what, 10 1st qt points on 4-5? Nowitzki had 12 of those in Houston I believe...and though I'm not suggesting Peja would pull off a stunt similar to Dirk's, it is clear to me he was taken out of game by Bibby alone. I mean you're a playmaker, get your guys involved, spread the ball, enough with that pick'n'roll drag...
I don't see Adelman as the guilty party here, I'll try to simplify. The offence works, off course it works, and the big part of it goes to the freedom the guts executing it have, or have been granted by the coach. And you just have to live with it, some like it some don't but it is proven the guys need the "freedom" on the floor to make good things out of it...but you need to make sure your main guys are involved. And I don't mean you pulling their pants every now and then but just don't monopolize the flow of the offence,...again, as a playmaker, your priority is getting your main guys involved, make sure they get their touches, defensive lapses aside...

[Bricklayer]

Here's the difference betwen Peja an Dirk. Also the reason Peja is NOT a first-rate offensive weapon despite his prolificness.

I want to get Dirk a shot -- give him a scoring opportunity. I give Dirk the ball. Voila! Instant scoring opportunity. He doesn't have to be perfectly set up. Doesn't have to get the ball in one of his "spots". The whole court is his spot. And if he's not where he wants to be, he can move WITH the ball to get there.

Peja's game is different, and puts much more stress on his teammates. Oh Peja can throw up junk if you just throw him the ball just anyplace, but the percentages are NOT high. In order to use a Peja effectively, he almost has to be open BEFORE he gets the ball, or you have to run over and try to help him get open once he catches because he can't do it himself. Now the key that has made Peja more than just another Fred Hoiberg or Erik Piatkowski is that he works very hard to get open without the ball. He is essentially playing his offensive game off in space while the ball is elsewhere. By the time the ball gets to him, the shot is practically already made or not. He's just converting on his earlier effort.

But now you have certain teams who have Peja's number. They've got it figured out. And they have started playing Peja very physically without the ball. He plays his offense without the ball, and they have responded by playing defense on him without the ball. And it frustrates him, and it takes him out of rhythm. So now you have a quandry -- assuming that Peja keeps working, which he does NOT always do, do you as a team work even harder to get him shots? Or do you go to other people who aren't being as smothered? And when Peja quits working without the ball, it gets even worse -- its as if you threw the ball to Kobe (who does his offensive work WITH the ball) and he just stood there. What now?

The open Princeton-style offenses we run work very well for Peja, but NOT because they ever focus on feeding him. They work well because they focus on swinging the ball and feeding everyone, Peja included. Its a matter of feel, decision-making, who's open etc. But everybody's involved. An offense that actually was built around force-feeding Peja would be very hard to make work without grinding the whole thing to a halt. It would require far more effort to design a Peja-feeder offense than a Dirk-feeder offense, and even more still than a Kobe-feeder offense. A Kobe feeder offense looks like "throw Kobe the ball and let him bring it up court". Instant feed. A Dirk-feeder offense looks like "bring the ball up court, then throw to Dirk". Let him do the rest. A Peja-feeder offense looks like "bring the ball up court, run a play for Peja, set a staggered screen, throw ball to hopefully open Peja". MUCH more work for the team, and obviously takes away from what the other guys are doing. It only makes sense if you have a bunch of untalented saps out there who's primary skills are setting picks and playing defense. If you've got 5 talented starters, than by the time you're got all 5 of them invested in trying to set up Peja, its just not worth it. They can take care of the scoring themselves more efficiently than all of the work it takes to forcefeed Peja.

And so in the end you have a great offensive weapon in Peja who can be taken away because of his lack of ball skills and post game. We can't just throw it to Peja and say "go get 'em" without going through a tremendous amount of work to get him in the right spot and situation. And at some point, if the other team is really concentrating on making it SO hard to get it to him, you're better off looking elsewhere for an easier score.

[punisher]

It is virtually impossible to compare Dirk and Peja, they are completely different players and as such have different roles and impact on their teams...
While I said the offence was the crucial part of the 4th qt meltdown, I never implied Peja should've been "fed" as you've put it, nor do I feel that should be the way any team plays (look at Kobe, T-Mac and look at Sonics or Pistons). I said he was hot, use him while he's hot ...I think it's safe to say after 6 NBA seasons that Peja, although a proven 25 point scorer, still has plenty of room for improvement...but this is not about Peja. What I said was you don't run your team the way we saw Bibby did last night, you need to get everyone, not just Peja, involved. I don't think this is something coming from the bench, as I said, it probably comes from the "freedom" the guys have, that making the responsibility of a playmaker even greater...I somehow feel that if B-Jax hadn't made that TO in closing minutes while Bibby was on the bench that things would've turned out differently..

[Zyphen]

Hogwash...pure and total bull****...you've pretty much bashed both of the Kings best players without providing any backup for your take. Too bad you didn't know yesterday that you'd been approved YESTERDAY or you could have started off on a better footing.

Please withdraw your pointing stick and try again. Honest, I'll give your posts another tryout before I hit the "ignore" button.

Your take on Webber is absurd, your assumption that anyone who is a fan of Peja must be Serbian is racist...your posts are extremely offensive and I sincerely hope that I don't run up against another one of them.


KK!Where the heck did I mention Serbians in that post you quoted? In one of my follow ups, I only said something about that because bozzwell brought it up in the first place. Why don't you read it again, carefully. Unless you think when I call someone a Peja fan, it means Serbian.... I neither attempted nor wished to exclude American Peja fans...

Frankly, I'm offended that you throw around the word "racist" so easily. Great way to try and win an argument! Why don't you go ahead and put me on your ignore list. The other people don't seem to find everything I say totally absurd.