Loren Woods

[Real_fan]

According to http://www.sactownroyalty.com/
</I>

A reader emailed today to say he saw Loren Woods at Sacramento International Airport over the weekend. This Loren Woods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loren_Woods). The former heir apparent to Tim Duncan at Wake Forest, former stud center at Arizona, and former back-up in Minnesota, Miami, and Toronto.
Woods might be headed to Sacramento. Not too many 7'2 free agent centers hang out in the River City unless they're talking turkey. NY, LA, Dallas, Miami - I wouldn't think anything of any NBA player showing up there. But Sacramento? And everyone in the free world knows Geoff Petrie is looking for a legitimate back-up to Brad Miller. Woods is one of the cheaper young options out there. With solid per-minute numbers (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/woodslo01.html), it's hard to understand why Toronto chained LW to the bench last season. But then again, it was hard to understand anything Toronto did the last few years, until Bryan Colangelo arrived. In 27 games, Woods had a rebound rate over 20 last season - one of the better marks in the league. And he's over 2 blocks per 40 minutes for his career. Who knows if Petrie is going to sign Woods. But it's definitely something to think about.

[Real_fan]

Obviously we didn't want Pollard, but we could be interested in one of Denver's bigs, Ely, Wilcox, Woods.......

I could see us S&T bonzi 3-way with denver and seattle to get wilcox out of the deal ( 3 yrs. 20 million) which would mean we might have to give up AN expendable piece ie. hart, 2nd rounder, Flaco.

Seattle getting one of Denver's bigs, Denver getting help at the only position they need help: the 2 guard (Bonzi) and we get Wilcox....then sign Woods to a minimum or LLE.

Bonzi's gone anyways might as well go over threshold if we get Wilcox, and bargain big. Petrie quit poking around fix our big situation!

[nbrans]

There's no doubt about Woods' talent, but he's one of the preeminent head cases in the NBA. Not the volatile fiery competitive Artest-type head case who can get it done on the court, it's more of a "who knows where his head will be on any given day" type of head case. Maybe he's finally gotten his head on straight but I wouldn't get too excited.

[NoBonus]

There's no doubt about Woods' talent, but he's one of the preeminent head cases in the NBA. Not the volatile fiery competitive Artest-type head case who can get it done on the court, it's more of a "who knows where his head will be on any given day" type of head case. Maybe he's finally gotten his head on straight but I wouldn't get too excited.
Maybe Mussellman can help him get focused.

[Bricklayer]

A couple of years back I remember him having a good start to the season for Toronto, but this obviously falls squarely in the unexciting category of moves if it happens. None of the teams he has played on has ever had a competent center, and he still hasn't been able to earn PT. Right style of player, but likely destined for 12th manhood.

[Troy]

A couple of years back I remember him having a good start to the season for Toronto, but this obviously falls squarely in the unexciting category of moves if it happens. None of the teams he has played on has ever had a competent center, and he still hasn't been able to earn PT. Right style of player, but likely destined for 12th manhood.

That's fine with me if he is 12th man, we need size on our roster and if we can sign a 7' 2" guy who has NBA experienca and can sign him cheap, then why not? Since Vlade, we haven't had a decent center, Brad isn't a center since he plays away from the hoop. He's a SF or guard or something, I don't know, but not a stay around the basket and get the rebound center, we all know that.


Loren Woods
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Loren Woods (born 21 June 1978, in St. Louis, Missouri) is a professional basketball player in the NBA. After playing college basketball at the University of Arizona, he was selected by the Minnesota Timberwolves in the second round of the 2001 NBA Draft.

Woods had been viewed as a lock to be a first round selection by many NBA draft analysts. At 7'1, 245 lbs, he had what many scouts considered to be NBA size for the center position, as well as quality athleticism. Some journalists speculated that his slip was an intentional gift by other GMs to help the Timberwolves after several first round draft picks were taken from them by the NBA as a result of the Joe Smith trade scandal.

Others, however, believed that the slip was no accident but rather the result of general managers being wary of Woods' perceived reputation as having a volatile personality. During the summer games following his selection, he fought with fellow 2001 draft pick Brendan Haywood, leading some to claim validation of the latter theory.

Since his selection, Woods has played for the Timberwolves, the Miami Heat and the Toronto Raptors, where he appeared in 45 games during the 2004-2005 season and posted a career best 3.9 points per game. In the 2005-2006 season, he is facing stiff competition for the center position with Antonio Davis, Pape Sow and Rafael Araujo. Woods is known for his volatile temper which was highlighted in a March 23rd game at Boston in which he hurled the ball in the air at quick speeds. He is currently an unrestricted free agent.

[Rome]

I wouldn't mind getting Loren Woods.

[CruzDude]

OK, OK, here is we we have gotten on Friday 11 Aug:

Woods a tall big with head case questions, probably under the MLE.

Ely, a decent journeyman big with ok numbers to backup Brad.

Wilox, young, agressive (most of the time), defender but then why would Sonics let him go?

Jeff Foster, who i'd take in a NY minute

Scot Pollard, who wants to come back, has been injured but you get 100% every minute he is out there. That alone accounts for something.

Musselman will have them run and gun and defend like mad men. So who can give Kings 12-18 min/g, "quality" minutes? and cost MLE or less? and who would be part of a S&T for Bonzi?

My prefs:
1. Foster
2. Ely
3. Wilcox (he wants to start)
4. Woods or Pollard

[Kings113]

I think Kelvin Cato and Olowokandi deserve mention... they're both decent defensive big men who would help the interior defense. They can be had for the LLE.

How it goes for me..

1. Foster
2. Wilcox
3. Cato
4. Olowokandi
5. Woods (thin, but long and athletic and tall)
6. Ely
7. Pollard

Heard a rumor from a good source that Loren Woods signed a one year deal with the Kings for above the minimum.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=533950&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=228

I'd be alright getting woods. He's thin, but everything else is there to be something decent at least.

Obviously getting Woods doesn't mean we still can't trade for a big as well.

Seattle getting one of Denver's bigs, Denver getting help at the only position they need help: the 2 guard (Bonzi) and we get Wilcox....then sign Woods to a minimum or LLE.

That'd be good for us.

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Woods may look thin at first glance, but he's 260 lbs.--solid on a 7'2" frame, and both are considered NBA quality. He's simply an underachiever--he couldn't thrive at Wake Forest playing next to Tim Duncan and had to transfer to Arizona, where he impressed--but he hasn't made much of an impact in the NBA. He's definitely got some shotblocking skills and actually a solid jumpshot for a big man standards, but he simply doesn't translate them to success on the court--barely makes a dent even if he gets little playing time. He started with Toronto many games last year but hasn't played over 16 minutes a game or over 60 games his entire career; probably really a benchwarmer and borderline NBA-talent, but he could out of the league once teams start getting impatient with him.

[Gary]

It's worth giving him a shot to make the team imo. But that's it.

[Kings113]

It's worth giving him a shot to make the team imo. But that's it.

He'd be getting guaranteed money, at least so far anyways.

[chaps]

According to http://www.sactownroyalty.com/
</I>

With solid per-minute numbers (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/woodslo01.html), it's hard to understand why Toronto chained LW to the bench last season.


He sucks, thats why. The Raptors desperately needed a Center last year and they had Loren Woods on their roster but barely used him, which IMO, says a lot.

Per- minute stats is 100% complete rubbish. I understand the logic of saying that if a guy for example, averages 4 points a game with 8 minutes of PT, imagine what he would do with 25-35 mins of PT. My biggest problem with that logic is that it doesn't take into consideration why that player didnt get that increase in playing time in the first place. If he would be that good, he wouldnt be on the bench so much, which is his problem. Think about it, a coach doesnt bench a player that he thinks will contribute for his basketball team.

Bottom line, there are reasons why Loren Woods played so little in his entire NBA career so far. And what's even more scary, is that a team with a serious lack of a center such as the Raptors, gave up on him. He wasnt good enough to be the 2nd or 3rd string center for the Raptors. So what makes you guys think he could get the job done as Miller's backup in Sac?

[Kings113]

I think with some regular time, he could be something decent. Especially under Musselman.

[Arby's Roast Beef]

I think it's a matter of confidence--consistency--and work ethic. I don't think he has any of the three.

[Kings113]

I'd take numbers similar to these from Woods...

2004-05, 45 games: 3.9 PPG, 0.87 BPG, 4.9 RPG, 15.8 MPG

I think it's a matter of confidence--consistency--and work ethic. I don't think he has any of the three.

Confidence? Artest, Musselman, and the Arco crowd would help him out. He'd get minutes with regularity in Sac. Can't know until he's actually in the situation, but I think the aforementioned would be a good help.

[Mad D]

Same guy who lost his starting job to Rafael Araujo?

[Arby's Roast Beef]

I'd take numbers similar to these from Woods...

2004-05, 45 games: 3.9 PPG, 0.87 BPG, 4.9 RPG, 15.8 MPG

Confidence? Artest, Musselman, and the Arco crowd would help him out. He'd get minutes with regularity in Sac. Can't know until he's actually in the situation, but I think the aforementioned would be a good help.

I know where you're coming from, but if you scale Jamal Sampson's minutes to 16 minutes per game, I think he would put up equivalent, if not better, stats. Woods is actually somewhat of a lost cause--been there, done that. Minnesota experimented, Miami experimented, and now Toronto has experimented. He's put up GREAT flashes (this season, had 12 points and 14 rebounds--10 of them offensive--in 24 minutes against Indiana, 5 blocks in 16 minutes against Dallas) but the rest of his other games are marred with inconsequential stat lines and little on-court effectiveness. He's got the tools, but he's never been able to put it all together consistently and effectively. He also seems to have some injury problems, missing a lot of games throughout his career. Honestly, I'd take a younger prospect, such as Jamal Sampson and Justin Williams, over a lost cause in Woods.

[Kings113]

I know where you're coming from, but if you scale Jamal Sampson's minutes to 16 minutes per game, I think he would put up equivalent, if not better, stats. Woods is actually somewhat of a lost cause--been there, done that. Minnesota experimented, Miami experimented, and now Toronto has experimented. He's put up GREAT flashes (this season, had 12 points and 14 rebounds--10 of them offensive--in 24 minutes against Indiana, 5 blocks in 16 minutes against Dallas) but the rest of his other games are marred with inconsequential stat lines and little on-court effectiveness. He's got the tools, but he's never been able to put it all together consistently and effectively. He also seems to have some injury problems, missing a lot of games throughout his career. Honestly, I'd take a younger prospect, such as Jamal Sampson and Justin Williams, over a lost cause in Woods.

Well, that's a different topic. I'd take Justin Williams or Sampson over Woods as well. Sampson did put up decent numbers in Charlotte in 23 games, and I was a defender of his while he was with the Kings. Obviously nothing happened with him with us because of Adelman. Not sure Williams would be the back-up center though, probably needs to put on some more mass to his upper body, which his frame suggests he can. Overall when he makes the team, likely a third big man, or a third center if we sign someone for guaranteed money.

On Woods alone though? We'll agree to disagree.

[RS189]

lol this is the only board i constantly see this agree to disagree stuff

btw, I'm good with getting this guy

[Kings113]

lol this is the only board i constantly see this agree to disagree stuff

It's just a way of settling on something.

[whozit]

Well, that's a different topic. I'd take Justin Williams or Sampson over Woods as well. Sampson did put up decent numbers in Charlotte in 23 games, and I was a defender of his while he was with the Kings. Obviously nothing happened with him with us because of Adelman. Not sure Williams would be the back-up center though, probably needs to put on some more mass to his upper body, which his frame suggests he can. Overall when he makes the team, likely a third big man, or a third center if we sign someone for guaranteed money.

On Woods alone though? We'll agree to disagree.If the Kings signed Woods, it could rule out any chance for Williams. The Kings have sixteen known to be signed right now, thirteen are guarenteed money contracts. The other three are Amundson, Williams and Jeter. Unless the Kings can do a two for one trade or unload a player for a draft pick, two of those three would have to go.

The Kings appear to be very high on Amundson and Williams seem to have a lot of potential. Personally I would rather go with potential than lose that for a "twelth man" rental.

[Kings113]

If the Kings signed Woods, it could rule out any chance for Williams. The Kings have sixteen known to be signed right now, thirteen are guarenteed money contracts. The other three are Amundson, Williams and Jeter. Unless the Kings can do a two for one trade or unload a player for a draft pick, two of those three would have to go.



The Kings appear to be very high on Amundson and Williams seem to have a lot of potential. Personally I would rather go with potential than lose that for a "twelth man" rental.

Well, as I said, I would take Williams over Woods as well.

But on Williams alone it's uncertain what position or spot in the rotation Williams will be at. Will he be a third PF? back-up center? third center? third PF/C? That doesn't rule out the oppurtunity for Williams to make the team or play if Woods is signed. Potapenko is irrelevant in the way of being dealt or demoted, and would think he isn't gonna be our back-up center. I think one of the expiring players we have will be dealt.

In relation to that, Williams is 6'9" 225-230 lbs (last we know), and would probably need to add some mass to his frame to be the back-up center. We don't know what he's doing this off-season, but I'd assume he'll have some added mass to his upper body.

Depends on the situation and who knows what happens with the roster, but I'm not so sure Amundson and/or Williams will be anything more than third big men. Williams has the best chance to be a back-up at center.

I understand the Kings like Williams and Amundson. Amundson's not a center, btw, he's a tweener foward.

On Woods alone, I still would be fine with him for us.

[Arby's Roast Beef]

I understand the Kings like Williams and Amundson. Amundson's not a center, btw, he's a tweener foward.
.

Well, we did play Corliss at center at parts during last year...;)

[Kings113]

Because Skinner was out for a couple games or so in 2005 (of 04-05 of course).

[whozit]

Well, as I said, I would take Williams over Woods as well.

But on Williams alone it's uncertain what position or spot in the rotation Williams will be at. Will he be a third PF? back-up center? third center? third PF/C? That doesn't rule out the oppurtunity for Williams to make the team or play if Woods is signed. Potapenko is irrelevant in the way of being dealt or demoted, and would think he isn't gonna be our back-up center. I think one of the expiring players we have will be dealt.

In relation to that, Williams is 6'9" 225-230 lbs (last we know), and would probably need to add some mass to his frame to be the back-up center. We don't know what he's doing this off-season, but I'd assume he'll have some added mass to his upper body.

Depends on the situation and who knows what happens with the roster, but I'm not so sure Amundson and/or Williams will be anything more than third big men. Williams has the best chance to be a back-up at center.

I understand the Kings like Williams and Amundson. Amundson's not a center, btw, he's a tweener foward.

On Woods alone, I still would be fine with him for us.It isn't the position they play, it is the total number of players allowed that is the issue. If there is two for one trade or a player exchanged for a draft pick, no problem. Otherwise, I would rather have the potential in the youngsters rather than the "known" quantity that hasn't been that great.

[Kings113]

It isn't the position they play, it is the total number of players allowed that is the issue. If there is two for one trade or a player exchanged for a draft pick, no problem. Otherwise, I would rather have the potential in the youngsters rather than the "known" quantity that hasn't been that great.

Well, that's why I talked about the roster situation and the expiring players, then the whole positional and rotation stuff comes into play with Williams (and to a lesser degree Amundson). It's just uncertain right now because the off-season isn't over and were not in October yet.

Once again, I would rather have Williams over Woods too. I just talked about Woods alone from Williams/Amundson, and in getting Woods. Obviously some kind of room would be made to get the guys the coach wants (out of the expiring group and the camp guys, an FA big) situated on the roster. That's why I think one of the expiring players will be gone this off-season.

Potapenko/Corliss/Hart likely aren't going to be even semi-regular fixtures. Hart if he stays, maybe. The other two? Who knows. All three of their status' are very uncertain in general.

Certain to stay:
Bibby
Martin
Artest
KT
Miller
Douby
Price
Salmons
Garcia
SAR
edit: Loren Woods

and obviously if a candiate to get traded out of there does get traded, someone will be brought back to replace that player.


On the outside looking in:
Potapenko
Hart
Corliss
Williams
Amundson
Jeter

At least 2-3 guys out of that group will be on a roster of 14-15 players. Obviously Williams/Amundson are favored. I still ultimately see them being third bigs though.

[pdxKingsFan]

I think Woods is interesting. I am a UA fan and he was a stud there. He wasn't a stud at Wake and he has been a dud in the NBA, but maybe its just a matter of finding the right home and system where he feels comfortable. Or maybe he'll never get off the bench.

If we're signing him for the minimum or LLE what's to lose?

[CruzDude]

His rebounds averaged on 48 min/g is 13.3 and 40% are Offensive!! but his FT% has continually dropped the past 4 years. Correctable tho.

Comparing how he was used in Toronto has no bearing on his game under Musselman. Petrie has never picked up a bum or a bust. And Wood is only coming of age now. So lets see. He'll have lots of competition as he is now the 17th contract.

[Kings113]

Agreed PDX and Cruz...

[Bricklayer]

Petrie has never picked up a bum or a bust. .


Uh....what??

Does it all the time. We still make jokes about some of the worst ones (see Cleaves, Mateen). Did it last year with the same roster spot (Sampson). Woods is what Woods is -- he's not going to suddenly morph into Hakeem because Geoff decided to pull him off the scrap heap.

Nothing really the matter with picking this one up, but its not going to solve anything beyond who gets to be our 9th-12th men.

[Kings113]

Rick never played Sampson except in garbage time. That wasn't Geoff's fault. I still think Sampson would of been able to give some energy off the bench with his size and athleticism.

[Bricklayer]

Rick never played Sampson except in garbage time. That wasn't Geoff's fault. I still think Sampson would of been able to give some energy off the bench with his size and athleticism.

Which is where the normal fan's delusion that these are al great finds kicks in. Everybody who has ever been a King was an All Star in waiting. Just something mysterious happened.

Sampson is on team...4? 5? now. Been waived several times. Never played more than 23 games in a season. Career scrub. Phil Jackson didn't play him either. I was intrigued, but he's lucky to have even found an NBA job this time. And its as a 12th man.

[TheJoker]

Brick, do you have a scounting report on him, Raptor fans seem to be down on him this acquisition seems so confusing.

[Bricklayer]

Brick, do you have a scounting report on him, Raptor fans seem to be down on him this acquisition seems so confusing.

Who, Woods?

Think some of the early posters had it more or less right. Tall, but not very physical. Good shotblocker, which is why he stuck in the league, and statistically at least rebounding has been solid the last couple of years. But shaky head, wildly inconsistent, effort and toughness not guaranteed. And just seems to be one of those guys who gets decent numbers but has no appreciable impact.

In this case though, those Toronto fans likely have a better read on him than I do. Perosnally I think he's another one of those "right skillset, wrong talent" type of guys who I would not be upset to see us acquire for depth, but who frankly just isn't good enough to turn things around for us.

[Entity]

Uh....what??

Does it all the time. We still make jokes about some of the worst ones (see Cleaves, Mateen). Did it last year with the same roster spot (Sampson). Woods is what Woods is -- he's not going to suddenly morph into Hakeem because Geoff decided to pull him off the scrap heap.

Nothing really the matter with picking this one up, but its not going to solve anything beyond who gets to be our 9th-12th men.

I would like to refer to a former post of yours Brick. It was concerning that C Seattle got from Africa with the 10th pick. You said he will probably be good for the 3rd or 4th team he played for. well i guess this is our chance for a guys career to turn around we are the 4th team. you never know (see Jim Jackson) Jimmy was sitting at home eating cheetos and watching M*A*S*H when called him 3 weeks before the season started and picked him up. After that season Petrie was cursed for not resigning him.

[Bricklayer]

I would like to refer to a former post of yours Brick. It was concerning that C Seattle got from Africa with the 10th pick. You said he will probably be good for the 3rd or 4th team he played for. well i guess this is our chance for a guys career to turn around we are the 4th team. you never know (see Jim Jackson) Jimmy was sitting at home eating cheetos and watching M*A*S*H when called him 3 weeks before the season started and picked him up. After that season Petrie was cursed for not resigning him.


Actually I think that was nbrans who said that about Sene.

But to the degree it was said, it was because Sene is yet another one of those guys who is both very young and very new to the game. Hence maybe a long way from his potential. Woods on the other hand had a more or less compelte college career, has been in the league for a long time, and just is what he is.

BTW, Jim Jackson was a former superstud who once averaged 25ppg in a season in his youth. Him stepping up for us and averaging 8ppg or whatever was no great shock.

[HndsmCelt]

Not to mention the fact that Jim Jackson was sititng home beceause he was mess in the locker room, not on the court. If Bonzi ends up on the couch eating cheetos waitng to get his Yacht unstuck it will NOT be beceause of his play.

Woods on the other hand is at the bottom of the list... well beceause he has never really done anything to move up on it.

[whozit]

Originally Posted by CruzDude http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?p=366461#post366461)
Petrie has never picked up a bum or a bust. .

Uh....what??

Does it all the time. We still make jokes about some of the worst ones (see Cleaves, Mateen). Did it last year with the same roster spot (Sampson). Woods is what Woods is -- he's not going to suddenly morph into Hakeem because Geoff decided to pull him off the scrap heap.

Nothing really the matter with picking this one up, but its not going to solve anything beyond who gets to be our 9th-12th men.

I don't know about all the time, but it does happen. However, I think one needs to look at the context of the trades made when placing judgement. Someone at Bleachersmob a long time ago made what I think is a valid observation, that when Petrie makes decisions based on talent he has a very good (doesn't mean perfect in any way) track record. When he makes decisions that appears to be focused on the bottom line, they have been far less than stellar. Cleaves falls into the latter catagory. Unfortunatly, the Kings have been in the cost cutting mode for some time, and the results speak for themselves.

[KingsFan93]

Loren Woods

Hollinger: Woods began the year as the starting center but was on the end of the bench by the time the season ended. At an athletic 7-1, his talent for rebounding is undeniable, but the rest of his game has never come around. Woods has a very limited post game and his lack of strength and balance make it tough for him to finish shots around the basket despite his size. He also tends to fall asleep on defense and can't push bigger players out of the post, making him a mediocre defender despite his rebounding and shot-blocking abilities. Woods is under contract for this season at a very modest salary and could fill in as a backup center if his effort gets more consistent, but he has little to recommend him as a long-term solution.


Most similar at age: Vladimir Stepania


Hoopshype: A dominant center in college with Arizona... Can also play the power forward... Good shooting touch... Very long... Great speed for his size... Not strong enough... Inconsistent

[Kings113]

We'll see how he is with the Kings - for a year.

[bajaden]

If there is a plus to his signing is the fact he finally has to prove himself if he has any desire to make the big bucks. He has the talent, just never seemed to have the fire. Hey, not a big investment. If he rises to the occasion its our gain. If not, you just cut your loses and move on. I know all the fans, including myself will give him plenty of support, until he proves unworthy of it.

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Maybe Mussellman can help him get focused.
Maybe Artest can get him focused...

edit: Sounds like the kind of project Coachie would have taken on.

[Kings113]

I think both will try.

[Kings113]

If there is a plus to his signing is the fact he finally has to prove himself if he has any desire to make the big bucks. He has the talent, just never seemed to have the fire. Hey, not a big investment. If he rises to the occasion its our gain. If not, you just cut your loses and move on. I know all the fans, including myself will give him plenty of support, until he proves unworthy of it.

Agreed.

[DoDiGaG0]

Potapenko > Woods

[Kings113]

Potapenko > Woods

Based on what Potapenko did this past season, I'd say it's Woods = Potapenko. Have to see how Woods does with us though.

[Rome]

Wow some of you guys are really down on Woods. Look at his minutes and the amount of rebounds he gets about 4-5 rebounds in only 12 minutes a game.

Give him 20-24 minutes and the guy will give you 5 pts, 7-8 rebounds, and 1-2 blocks. Thats not too bad if you ask me...

Only question is will he be consistent or inconsistent. If he becomes the player i mentioned than I'm going to love this signing more than last year's SAR or this year's Salmons.

[Kings113]

I don't think he'll get in the low 20s, but I could see him getting mid-teens-20 MPG.

[uolj]

I'll be surprised if he gets much more than 10 minutes a game, and that's not even counting the 20-50 DNP-CDs.

[DaMan]

^^^ I totally agree with u

[Warhawk]

^^^ I totally agree with u

I doubt he'll play much (at least at first - may just be an insurance policy more than anything else), but with a new coach and new system, who knows????

[Kings113]

I'll be surprised if he gets much more than 10 minutes a game, and that's not even counting the 20-50 DNP-CDs.

I think you could be surprised with how Musselman seemingly likes to use his roster. Not taking his time in GS into account, but what Muss has already said in various interviews and articles since he's gotten here.

[SacTownKid]

The one thing about Loren is that in 10 minutes he can get you 4 blocks. Very prolific.

Of course a negative is that he is very foul prone so he could also get you 4 fouls. He kind of reminds me of Tyson Chandler, only when he gets in early foul trouble you're not sending 10 million dollars to the bench.

[KingsFan93]

The one thing about Loren is that in 10 minutes he can get you 4 blocks.

More 4 rebounds than 4 blocks

[Troy]

The one thing about Loren is that in 10 minutes he can get you 4 blocks. Very prolific.

Of course a negative is that he is very foul prone so he could also get you 4 fouls. He kind of reminds me of Tyson Chandler, only when he gets in early foul trouble you're not sending 10 million dollars to the bench.

Good analogy, he does sound like Chandler and is much cheaper. :D

[Arby's Roast Beef]

The one thing about Loren is that in 10 minutes he can get you 4 blocks. Very prolific.


I can agree with you that he shows some really great potential simply with his statlines. But he's either very effective or very inefficient--often being the latter, of course. Hypothetically, if Musselman does decide to give Woods 30 minutes per game and lets him play all 82 games, Woods may have about 15 good games and 67 bad games, based on his play in previous years. He often teases you with his talent though.

[SLAB]

I'm definatly not down on the Woods signing.

Not exactly what I wanted to blow me out of the water, but still, pretty much ANYTHING is better than watching Vitaly Potopenko playing consistant minutes...Ugh.

Hopefully he will be a 5pt/5reb/2blk guy, and I would be more than pleased with that.

[Kings113]

I'm definatly not down on the Woods signing.

Not exactly what I wanted to blow me out of the water, but still, pretty much ANYTHING is better than watching Vitaly Potopenko playing consistant minutes...Ugh.

Hopefully he will be a 5pt/5reb/2blk guy, and I would be more than pleased with that.

Indeed.

[Amanjoy]

Has anybody ever entertained the notion that Ben Walllace was much like Woods in the fact that he bounced around for a bit on the end of the bench before finding the right fit in Detroit. I can imagine Detroit fans weren't too happy when they found out Grant Hill had been lost and Ben Wallace was supposed to make them forget about Hill's greatness! Give Woods a chance. I think he'll play well for us!

[Kingsin07]

didn't jamal sampson rebound at about that same rate? that worked out very well. woods will be better than jamal, but please for the love of god, leave his name out of the same sentence as ben wallace.

[Kings113]

didn't jamal sampson rebound at about that same rate? that worked out very well. woods will be better than jamal, but please for the love of god, leave his name out of the same sentence as ben wallace.

Sampson was never played outside of garbage time. I think with a coach like Musselman, and the big uncertainity of Potapenko, it'll be different for Woods.

[Čarolija]

Has anybody ever entertained the notion that Ben Walllace was much like Woods in the fact that he bounced around for a bit on the end of the bench before finding the right fit in Detroit. I can imagine Detroit fans weren't too happy when they found out Grant Hill had been lost and Ben Wallace was supposed to make them forget about Hill's greatness! Give Woods a chance. I think he'll play well for us!
Not true!

Wallace was playing just under 17 minutes per game in his second year. In his 3rd season he was getting serious minutes in the rotation. In fact just und 27 minutes per game. Thats hardly riding the back of the bench.

[Entity]

I just looked at Kandi's and Cato's numbers. How can we be saying they are better than Woods. yeah sure 5 years ago. look at their numbers for the last 2 years. Woods has both of them beat in reb and blk and about the same in points. Not to mention both of them are 32 and 33 years old can't run the floor anymore and don't have a leaping ability. Woods will fit Musselmans style alot better than the grumpy old men.

[Kings113]

I just looked at Kandi's and Cato's numbers. How can we be saying they are better than Woods. yeah sure 5 years ago. look at their numbers for the last 2 years. Woods has both of them beat in reb and blk and about the same in points. Not to mention both of them are 32 and 33 years old can't run the floor anymore and don't have a leaping ability. Woods will fit Musselmans style alot better than the grumpy old men.

Cato was injury plagued the last two seasons. But was rehabbing his most recent injury, the ankle. He's a pretty solid defensive big. Olowokandi barely played in Boston, wasn't bad in Minny. He would of had a regular oppurtunity here, and is an inside defensive presence.

Both aren't totally hops-less or mobile-less, and are very big.

Unless it's a joke, Cato isn't grumpy.

Overall, I'm fine with getting Woods.

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Well, Cato is a beetle, if he's not grumpy ;) ...

If anything, Woods is huge. He's 7'2" and 260 lbs., even though he looks less than that in terms of weight seeing long and lanky he really is. If he doesn't have the mental potential down, he sure does have the physical potential.

[Troy]

Wow, we actually have another 7 footer and not just that...he's 7' 2". I don't know if you can really call Brad a 7 footer since he plays smaller and away from the basket, but what the heck...we have a cheap big. Should be a fun season. I really hope Amundson and Williams stick as well, should be fun to watch them and hopefully they will get some playing time and suprise us. Amundson brings lots of effort so that's good because we lost Bonzi, should be fun to see him off the bench and providing the spark we need.

[Sac.Kings]

anyone know when the press conference is?

[Sac.Kings]

How many players do we have that have guaranteed contracts? I don't think Amundson, Williams, and Jeter will or can all be on the team. Out of those three, the most complete is Amundson, while Williams is the superior defender.

[Kings113]

How many players do we have that have guaranteed contracts? I don't think Amundson, Williams, and Jeter will or can all be on the team. Out of those three, the most complete is Amundson, while Williams is the superior defender.

Depends on our roster situation by October.

"Complete" I don't think matters with Amundson or Williams. They're both hustlers, bangers, and defenders.

I hope we can get both of them on the team, but if not, one of course. I'd rather have Williams of the two, but would be alright with Amundson because of what he brings as well.

Jeter? Who knows, could replace Hart. He had a decent summer league. Overall I'm not sure he'll make the team.

[Sac.Kings]

I would prefer Williams also, but in the summer league, it seemed to me Amundson was better offensively while Williams swatted everything (or tried to) that came withing 5ft of him. I like Williams more because he seems to know what type of player he is and he plays defense better than some of the Kings players, mainly Brad.

[Kings113]

I would prefer Williams also, but in the summer league, it seemed to me Amundson was better offensively while Williams swatted everything (or tried to) that came withing 5ft of him. I like Williams more because he seems to know what type of player he is and he plays defense better than some of the Kings players, mainly Brad.

Amundson is better offensively yes, but so far, just a better hustle point scorer than Williams. While Amundson also got more touches than Williams. As it's not like Williams has bad hands (he has big hands) or can't score at all. Amundson doesn't have a jumpshot yet, isn't a passer. Which isn't going to be expected from either of them unless they develop it or something.

Quite frankly, they won't be out there for offense really. I just like both of their energy-player games, which is what they'll be out there for.

As again, this goes back to them both being hustlers/bangers/defenders.

[SacTownKid]

I fully expect to see Jason Hart waived any day now in order to make room for somebody.

[Rome]

I fully expect to see Jason Hart waived any day now in order to make room for somebody.

I hope your right.

[VF21]

I fully expect to see Jason Hart waived any day now in order to make room for somebody.

Whoooo! That means room for Bozo the one-legged monkey!!

Yay!!!!

[Troy]

Whoooo! That means room for Bozo the one-legged monkey!!

Yay!!!!

Are you calling Pooh a one-legged monkey??? :D

[VF21]

Ah no. But I can understand your confusion. Pooh and monkeys often are associated, especially when one is hurling the other at pesky visitors.

:p

[Amanjoy]

Not true!

Wallace was playing just under 17 minutes per game in his second year. In his 3rd season he was getting serious minutes in the rotation. In fact just und 27 minutes per game. Thats hardly riding the back of the bench.


Ok...so maybe he wasn't riding the pine...but was he doing anything with those minutes? Not that I can remember! In fact I don't think anybody had even heard of the guy till he showed up in Detroit. Give Woods a chance...this might be the right situation for him to shine.

[Jerryaki]

Ok...so maybe he wasn't riding the pine...but was he doing anything with those minutes? Not that I can remember! In fact I don't think anybody had even heard of the guy till he showed up in Detroit. Give Woods a chance...this might be the right situation for him to shine.

by his third season wallace was logging 6 pts, 8 boards, and 2 blocks in 26 minutes. bu his third season, woods was logging 3 pts, 4 rebounds, and .5 blocks in 16 minutes. don't bother extrapolating the stats to 26 minutes, woods is NOT wallace.

[Amanjoy]

by his third season wallace was logging 6 pts, 8 boards, and 2 blocks in 26 minutes. bu his third season, woods was logging 3 pts, 4 rebounds, and .5 blocks in 16 minutes. don't bother extrapolating the stats to 26 minutes, woods is NOT wallace.


Maybe he won't be Ben Wallace, but Ben Wallce wasn't the Ben Wallace we know now until he got the opportunity to be in a system that used his skills to their fullest. I'm not saying Woods will go on to be a hall-of-fame calibur defensive player. I'm just saying he has a great opportunity to get playing time, and he could turn out to be a diamond in the rough the way Wallace did given the right opportunity and situation. I can gurantee you that Pistons fans got a whole lot mroe than they bargained for when they picked up Big Ben.

As for mentioning Woods' name with that of Ben Wallace, maybe it's blasphemy now, but you never know what will happen after this year. I'm sure mentioning Wallace's name in the same sentence with Grant Hill's was blasphemy in Detroit for a while. Now it's the other way around!

Like I said, I'm not saying that Woods will be another Ben Wallace. I'm jsut saying that big guys like him can still contribute given the right coach and right situation. Wallce became a great player in Det when really he's not! It will be interesting to see how he does with the Bulls this year. I think Woods really has a great shot with the Kings to succeed. Whether or not he does will be up to him.

[Bricklayer]

Oh my, this is getting almost comical.

A 28yr old 5yr pro with career averages of 3pts 3rebs and half a block, and now somehow its "you never know?"

Please.

[Smills91]

Ok...so maybe he wasn't riding the pine...but was he doing anything with those minutes? Not that I can remember! In fact I don't think anybody had even heard of the guy till he showed up in Detroit. Give Woods a chance...this might be the right situation for him to shine.

Hey man I KNOW you! I've met you at the Jazz-Kings games in SLC and also at Sean Favero's house. How you doing man?

[Real_fan]

So when is the signing (Woods)?

[BawLa]

Ah no. But I can understand your confusion. Pooh and monkeys often are associated, especially when one is hurling the other at pesky visitors.

:p

:eek: You saw Pooh Jeter throwing a monkey at someone? Wow. I'm jealous. :)

[Jerryaki]

pooh jeter threw a monkey AND ate a wheel of cheese? i'm not even upset, that's just amazing!

[Troy]

From Sac Bee about Woods:

One interesting side note about Loren Woods: His son is one perceptive young fellow. The elder Woods is the newest King, a 7-foot-2 center who came aboard via free agency Tuesday to shore up a front line that could use some size, experience, bulk, resistance and rebounds.
The five-year veteran also is the father of a 4 1/2-year-old, Kholin, who knows the best player around when he sees one.
"He said his favorite player in the NBA is me," Woods said, grinning while at the Kings' practice facility. "He's got to say that. I'm the one paying the bills."
Woods, 28, is hoping for some financial security, with the Kings representing his fourth team, and he's not exactly conceding to a vagabond career. He signed a one-year, $950,000 deal, though it is not known how much of that is guaranteed. What Woods can say for certain is that he's ready to stick around for a bit. "It's my fourth team," he said. "I don't know how many more chances I'll get. I'm like a cat with nine lives."
He's more of a Caterpillar-brand bulldozer -- wide-bodied and sturdy. Though Woods hasn't been compared to Shaquille O'Neal since entering the league as a second-round pick of the Minnesota Timberwolves out of Arizona in 2001, he has proven to be a solid player when he gets minutes.
Woods' best season was with the Toronto Raptors in 2004-05, when he averaged 3.9 points and 4.9 rebounds in 45 games. Last season, he averaged 2.3 points and 4.1 rebounds in 27 games for the Raptors.
"I like his length, and he's athletic and he can block shots," said Kings vice president of basketball operations Wayne Cooper, a former NBA post himself. "He's had some moments in this league. His upside is still there."
Cooper also noted that there simply is not a surplus of 7-footers with skills bouncing around the free-agent want list. Not this summer or ever.
Kings president of basketball operations Geoff Petrie said "a lot of big guys develop later" in their careers. Petrie also said the Kings likely are finished with offseason upgrades, barring unforeseen trades.
Sacramento has 17 players under contract entering training camp. Teams are allowed to keep 15.
"It's pretty unlikely that we're going to sign any more players," Petrie said. "We're pretty well tapped out on our (player salary) exceptions."
Petrie said he is pleased with the summer additions, from first-round pick Quincy Douby, a guard, to free-agent signee John Salmons, a swingman, to Woods.
"I like the draft pick, I like John in absence of Bonzi (Wells), and Loren gives us depth," Petrie said. "And I was encouraged with our young guys in summer league."
Eager to impress at training camp, Woods already has met with coach Eric Musselman, and he has a friend in swingman Kevin Martin, who has the same offseason conditioning coach as Woods.
A St. Louis native, Woods was a high school McDonald's All-American. He had his growth spurt in middle school, shooting up nearly a foot in two years, and he joked that the rest of his body still is trying to catch up.
"I came into the sixth grade at 5-10, and people said, 'That kid's tall!' to leaving eighth grade at 6-8 and people saying, 'Wow.' "
Woods yearns for more wows. He thought he was earning some of that praise during his two seasons in Toronto. But he said he came away understanding it was a "learning experience" with a lot of "frustration" of losses and playing time.
"I can fit in here," the soft-spoken Woods said. "I can help this team. I can do a little bit of everything. I can rebound and run, and I can put the ball in the hole a little. I'm 7-2, and the basket is right next to me. I'm very excited about this. It's a new start."






From hoopshype about Woods:



http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm
"
Woods, 28, is hoping for some financial security, with the Kings representing his fourth team, and he's not exactly conceding to a vagabond career. He signed a one-year, $950,000 deal, though it is not known how much of that is guaranteed (javascript:newwind('http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/14298103p-15157036c.html','221')). What Woods can say for certain is that he's ready to stick around for a bit. Sacramento Bee (javascript:newwind('http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/14298103p-15157036c.html','221'))
"It's my fourth team," he said. "I don't know how many more chances I'll get. I'm like a cat with nine lives." (javascript:newwind('http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/14298103p-15157036c.html','231')) He's more of a Caterpillar-brand bulldozer -- wide-bodied and sturdy. Though Woods hasn't been compared to Shaquille O'Neal since entering the league as a second-round pick of the Minnesota Timberwolves out of Arizona in 2001, he has proven to be a solid player when he gets minutes. Sacramento Bee (javascript:newwind('http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/14298103p-15157036c.html','231'))
"It's pretty unlikely that we're going to sign any more players," Petrie said (javascript:newwind('http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/14298103p-15157036c.html','241')). "We're pretty well tapped out on our (player salary) exceptions." Sacramento Bee (javascript:newwind('http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/14298103p-15157036c.html','241'))
Petrie said he is pleased with the summer additions, from first-round pick Quincy Douby, a guard, to free-agent signee John Salmons, a swingman, to Woods. "I like the draft pick, I like John in absence of Bonzi (Wells), and Loren gives us depth," Petrie said. "And I was encouraged with our young guys in summer league." (javascript:newwind('http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/14298103p-15157036c.html','251')) Sacramento Bee (javascript:newwind('http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/14298103p-15157036c.html','251'))"

[Troy]

Ah no. But I can understand your confusion. Pooh and monkeys often are associated, especially when one is hurling the other at pesky visitors.

:p

LOL :D

Wow, Woods doesn't have much confidence, he is not believing that his 4 year old thinks he's the best NBA player. I'd say he is the best if that gives him the confidence he needs to do good here in Sacramento. Your the best Woods, there is no higher. :-)

Come on Kings fans:

"Your the best around...no one gana evera push you down...your the best around......"




I don't know how the rest goes, and I got to get off to work. Later....

[Kings113]

"It's pretty unlikely that we're going to sign any more players," Petrie said. "We're pretty well tapped out on our (player salary) exceptions." Sacramento Bee

That's expected. Since there isn't really anyone else out there relevant for us, now that we have Woods. Trades aren't and shouldn't be ruled out though.

[TheJoker]

That's expected. Since there isn't really anyone else out there relevant for us, now that we have Woods. Trades aren't and shouldn't be ruled out though.

GP seems, confident about our front-court question is who can we trade to get value back? Kenny Thomas is highly undervalued in this league and his contract makes teams less-attractive is there possible trading options you see us trading that teams will be interested?

[thatguy]

GP seems, confident about our front-court question is who can we trade to get value back? Kenny Thomas is highly undervalued in this league and his contract makes teams less-attractive is there possible trading options you see us trading that teams will be interested?

I find it peculiar that you think KT is both undervalued and overpaid.

The Kings' offseason, insofar as player movement/additions, is over.

[walker60]

GP seems, confident about our front-court question is who can we trade to get value back? Kenny Thomas is highly undervalued in this league and his contract makes teams less-attractive is there possible trading options you see us trading that teams will be interested?

Good analysis. I don't see who we could trade KT for. What we want is a solid role-playing PF who will do the dirty things and block shots and grab boards. Except for the shot-blocking, that's what KT brings to the table. Yes, he pouts when he doesn't play, but I don't recall him ever going public with his discontent.

He has a crappy contract, but like TheJoker said, he's an underrated player. Trading straight across for another PF using KT as trade bait probably won't happen, unless we are willing to take less talent in return. A trade definitley isn't out of the works, but I don't think its very likely at this point.

[TheJoker]

Good analysis. I don't see who we could trade KT for. What we want is a solid role-playing PF who will do the dirty things and block shots and grab boards. Except for the shot-blocking, that's what KT brings to the table. Yes, he pouts when he doesn't play, but I don't recall him ever going public with his discontent.

He has a crappy contract, but like TheJoker said, he's an underrated player. Trading straight across for another PF using KT as trade bait probably won't happen, unless we are willing to take less talent in return. A trade definitley isn't out of the works, but I don't think its very likely at this point.

The Kings, need a front-court player who plays consistant down-low.

if we want a talented 4, we need to trade one our core players which seems very unlikely at this point. it's unfortunate this Organization seems to think our front-court is satisfying because it's not.

[TheJoker]

I find it peculiar that you think KT is both undervalued and overpaid.

The Kings' offseason, insofar as player movement/additions, is over.

He is undervalued, no one is gonna take on his contract unless we add a good player in the package.

and i do agree that we are done with adding anyone i have no hope for trades we are set IMO . . . .

[Kings113]

The Kings, need a front-court player who plays consistant down-low.

if we want a talented 4, we need to trade one our core players which seems very unlikely at this point. it's unfortunate this Organization seems to think our front-court is satisfying because it's not.

Everyone says this, but who is that or those "talented 4s"?

[walker60]

With the production that we get from SAR and KT, I think we have a very solid rotation at PF.

[Sac.Kings]

Aside from a defensive viewpoint, our PF rotation is good plus the defense isn't bad, just undersized. If Williams makes the team, that will help the defense part a lot.

[Entity]

Everyone says this, but who is that or those "talented 4s"?


That is the million dollar question. All i see is "superstar PF" Or we need a big name PF. well do you know how many superstart PF's there are that ARE NOT staples on their current team. Be it MVP caliber or hot youngster waiting to be a superstart. Are you ready for the amount




Give up?





ZERO absolutley NO Power Fowards that we can get because Why would the spurs trade Duncan or the wolves trade Garnett or bobcats trade Okafor or Raptors with Bosh Magic with Howard Memphis with Gasol or Dallas with Dirk. But we got a superstar SF and star PG and a star C and soon to be star maybe higher SG. and some nice role playing PF and young talent to boot.

[TheJoker]

Everyone says this, but who is that or those "talented 4s"?

We don't need a superstar just a caliber player whos willing to bang consistantly and give us a superior defensive presence until we don't find a true banger down-low i'm afraid to say we will ever be in the level we are going to hope.

[Entity]

Thats just it all anyone can say is a player or someone. Name me that person that we can get that will be SUPERIOR????? You got all these adjectives and no proper names.

[Kings113]

Thats just it all anyone can say is a player or someone. Name me that person that we can get that will be SUPERIOR????? You got all these adjectives and no proper names.

Indeed.

[SacTownKid]

Everyone says this, but who is that or those "talented 4s"?

You can't ask that question, it's against the rules! :p

[TheJoker]

Thats just it all anyone can say is a player or someone. Name me that person that we can get that will be SUPERIOR????? You got all these adjectives and no proper names.

Why mention names? all we have to do is just get someone who has that caliber like i mention it doesn't have to be a superstar of any kind.

we have lacked real inside presense for a long time we just need a consistant banger and a defender and a guy who can play down-low to get to that other level.

[Kings113]

and i do agree that we are done with adding anyone i have no hope for trades we are set IMO . . . .

We don't need a superstar just a caliber player whos willing to bang consistantly and give us a superior defensive presence until we don't find a true banger down-low i'm afraid to say we will ever be in the level we are going to hope.

So, why are you talking about an addition? Would of course be through trade at this point.

The kind of player you're talking about sounds like Etan Thomas or Jeff Foster. Also, have to keep Justin Williams in mind, he has a good chance to make our team and has already impressed the Kings organization. I think he'll develop into a solid at least, defensive big man.

[Entity]

Why mention names? all we have to do is just get someone who has that caliber like i mention it doesn't have to be a superstar of any kind.

we have lacked real inside presense for a long time we just need a consistant banger and a defender and a guy who can play down-low to get to that other level.


you are making my point. Everybody had the ficticious Defensive Banger to solidify our frontcourt. But we can't get him and nobody knows who he is. Just saying somebody is redundant. Name me just one person that perfectly fits that role the we CAN GET.

[TheJoker]

So, why are you talking about an addition? Would of course be through trade at this point.

I'm just talking about what we need to get to that other level

[Entity]

Shareef is a very good defender in the post. He only started 30 games last year. he played Garnett twice holding him to 11 points one game and 22 the second game in that second game Reef scored 19 points himself and Garnett only had 5 boards in 40 min. He played Okafor twice holding him to 10 and 8 points. He played Duncan once Duncan did score 24 but Reef scored 25. hmm lets see he held K-mart to 13 and 11 points in 2 games. Held Rasheed to 10 points. Held Shawn Marion to 16 while Reef poured in 33. ahh Bosh scored 22 but so did Reef in that game while Reef out rebounded him by 2. I am looking for team with actual good PF's Reef started against he played other like Utah they start Okur and Tag in that game. Tag had nine while Okur had 5.

Damn the more i look at Reefs numbers at the first of the year when he started he looks very good as a low post defender and a good scorer. He could easily get 15 to 20 points any night.

[Kings113]

SAR isn't a quality rebounder, but he's capable of getting 8 a game if he starts a full season. Obviously he couldn't last year. SAR's an interior presence in the post offensively and man-to-man, but not an intimidator or shotblocker.

[Entity]

yeah he isn't a shot blocker but he isn't going to get backed down. Shot blocking comes from help defense anyway. If everybody plays sound man to man defense shot blocking won't be needed as much.

[Rome]

Honestly, I would trade Kenny Thomas or Brad Miller before I try to trade Reef.

[Kings113]

yeah he isn't a shot blocker but he isn't going to get backed down. Shot blocking comes from help defense anyway. If everybody plays sound man to man defense shot blocking won't be needed as much.

Yeah. Having a shotblocker is convenient. But, I think we already could have one in Woods, and another potentially in Justin Williams, who is also a banger. Some obviously don't care for Woods much, or at all. Amundson's a banger, but shotblocking is ? mark. He showed he could in the summer league though ;).

I agree Rome.

[SacTownKid]

No question we needed shotblocking.

That's where Woods comes in. Per minute he is one of the best shotblockers in the league. Not the best player by any means but I think if given minutes he can help alleviate some of our desperation of not having a shotblocker. That and I think he fits into everything Musselman has said he is trying to do with this team.

With the way our team is constructed we need someone who can turn shots away at the basket. Hopefully Justin can make the team and we'll have two quality shotblockers.

[Kings113]

No question we needed shotblocking.

That's where Woods comes in. Per minute he is one of the best shotblockers in the league. Not the best player by any means but I think if given minutes he can help alleviate some of our desperation of not having a shotblocker. That and I think he fits into everything Musselman has said he is trying to do with this team.

With the way our team is constructed we need someone who can turn shots away at the basket. Hopefully Justin can make the team and we'll have two quality shotblockers.

agreed

[TheJoker]

Yeah. Having a shotblocker is convenient. But, I think we already could have one in Woods

Are you joking?

[Kings113]

Are you joking?

Absolutely not. C'mon now chap, by now you should know how I feel about Woods from the main thread about him in Kings Rap (post #269 the latest on that).

[Bricklayer]

What a bunch of loons.

We could have Bill Russel on the team, but if he's buried behind other bigs and rarely hits the floor, its worth nothing. Having shotblocking 12th men is rouhgly as significant as guys having nipples. Its all for show.

The SF minutes are all claimed -- 35-40min of them by Ron. The PF minutes are all claimed too -- it is almost inconceivable that Kenny and Reef will not average at least 48min combined. That's an average of 24min per player. And frankly at that level one or the other is going to be pissed. Which means that the grand total of our not that special shotblocker's minutes will, at most, be the roughly 10-15 behind Brad.

And yes, shotblocking is more important than a post defender, because the shotblocking makes the other eleven guys better basketball players, and the 12 guys ont he other team worse basketball players. Post defense is, like all defense, valuable. But setting aside Reef being laughably overrated by some on here in that aspect, it doesn't shut down the lane to anybody but the single opponent no doubt shaking in his boots at being bodied up by Shareef Abdur-Rahim.

[SacTownKid]

What a bunch of loons.

We could have Bill Russel on the team, but if he's buried behind other bigs and rarely hits the floor, its worth nothing. Having shotblocking 12th men is rouhgly as significant as guys having nipples. Its all for show.

The SF minutes are all claimed -- 35-40min of them by Ron. The PF minutes are all claimed too -- it is almost inconceivable that Kenny and Reef will not average at least 48min combined. That's an average of 24min per player. And frankly at that level one or the other is going to be pissed. Which means that the grand total of our not that special shotblocker's minutes will be the roughly 10-15 behind Brad.

And yes, shotblocking is more important than a post defender, because the shotblocking makes the other eleven guys better basketball players, and the 12 guys ont he other team worse basketball players. Post defense is, like all defense, valuable. But setting aside Reef being laughably overrated by some on here in that aspect, it doesn't shut down the lane to anybody but the single opponent no doubt shaking in his boots at being bodied up by Shareef Abdur-Rahim.


I can understand what you are saying. I just hope that cycle isn't repeated as it has been the last couple of years. Having the ability but it being wasted on the bench.

You are however partly over generalizing and exaggerating shot blocking and it's actual value a tad bit. Still the presence is very important. Marcus Camby, one of the best shotblockers in the league even said the Nuggets gameplan against us was to attack the paint because we had no shotblocking. They, like most teams, succeeded in doing so. Teams know our weakness and I hope Loren gets a chance to come in and help change the culture of this team.

I don't know how the minutes will be distributed so I can't tell you what the rotation will be but 15 minutes a game for Loren sounds good to me. The only thing I don't want to see is 15 minutes one game, and 0 for the next 3 if he can help the team. Other than somewhat consistent minutes I even more so want to see Brad's minutes cut about 3-5 minutes a game. The guy just can't last a full season playing 40 minutes a game.

I also don't know if Muss plans on using Reef at C. Of course if he does that cuts away minutes from Loren or Brad. We'll see.

[Rome]

What a bunch of loons.

We could have Bill Russel on the team, but if he's buried behind other bigs and rarely hits the floor, its worth nothing. Having shotblocking 12th men is rouhgly as significant as guys having nipples. Its all for show.

The SF minutes are all claimed -- 35-40min of them by Ron. The PF minutes are all claimed too -- it is almost inconceivable that Kenny and Reef will not average at least 48min combined. That's an average of 24min per player. And frankly at that level one or the other is going to be pissed. Which means that the grand total of our not that special shotblocker's minutes will, at most, be the roughly 10-15 behind Brad.

And yes, shotblocking is more important than a post defender, because the shotblocking makes the other eleven guys better basketball players, and the 12 guys ont he other team worse basketball players. Post defense is, like all defense, valuable. But setting aside Reef being laughably overrated by some on here in that aspect, it doesn't shut down the lane to anybody but the single opponent no doubt shaking in his boots at being bodied up by Shareef Abdur-Rahim.

Not saying Reef is a defensive presence. I'm just simply stating that He plays better defense than Brad Miller and has a nice offensive game plus costs half the price. I think moving Brad Miller for a defensive center would be much wiser and better but the question is which team will bite and trade their defensive center for a soft shooting center like Brad Miller?

[Kings113]

I'd still be absolutely all over Brad for Camby. :)

[BMiller52]

Not saying Reef is a defensive presence. I'm just simply stating that He plays better defense than Brad Miller and has a nice offensive game plus costs half the price. I think moving Brad Miller for a defensive center would be much wiser and better but the question is which team will bite and trade their defensive center for a soft shooting center like Brad Miller?


I honestly think that'll change this year. Before he broke his leg Miller was a pretty good defender/rebounder, now he looks great in the WC and he'll be pushed harder by Musselman. The fact that he's like 4 inches taller helps too.

Oh and 82games.com's stats say Reef is a very bad defender: http://www.82games.com/rosenbaum3.htm

[BMiller52]

I'd still be absolutely all over Brad for Camby. :)


Too bad Denver wouldn't be.

[Kings113]

Too bad Denver wouldn't be.

*shrug* who knows ;)

[BigWaxer]

I can understand what you are saying. I just hope that cycle isn't repeated as it has been the last couple of years. Having the ability but it being wasted on the bench.

Just a question so I understand more. But what players were wasted on the bench? I am assuming TAG? Skinner? but this goes for pretty much any of them. So my question is do you think playing these bench players would have yielded us better results in the end? Meaning not being bounced early in the playoffs.

[RS189]

Maybe skinner couldve had better trade value with some minutes, even though we traded him desperately to get under the luxury tax

[VF21]

Just a question so I understand more. But what players were wasted on the bench? I am assuming TAG? Skinner? but this goes for pretty much any of them. So my question is do you think playing these bench players would have yielded us better results in the end? Meaning not being bounced early in the playoffs.

Virtually everyone on this board has complained one time or another about Adelman's use (or more appropriately - non-use) of the bench. We've screamed about it; we've beaten our chests and kicked chairs about it.

Players we thought could have given our starters a break OR at least come in when the starters were cold were not utilized to advantage in some instances.

Remember Gerald Wallace? How many people thought he was totally wasted here?

SacTownKid is simply bringing up something that most of us at least had thoughts of once in a while. If we're going to have guys on the bench that Petrie says he's really enthused about, let's hope Musselman at least uses them enough so we know if there's any hope for them or not.

[hammystyle]

^^ Although at times I think the screaming is a bit much. In Jamal Sampson's case for instance. Really, Gerald Wallace is the only guy I wished could have played a bit more (fully recogizing the hindsightedness of it all).

[VF21]

There were times when putting Greg Ostertag in might have helped. It certainly couldn't have hurt more than watching Brad labor up and down the court like he was struggling through mud bogs. On some nights, when Miller just wasn't quite there, I think a number of us really would have liked to see Tag in - until it got to the point where he was so out of shape that he looked like Tractor Traylor.

[TheJoker]

There were times when putting Greg Ostertag in might have helped. It certainly couldn't have hurt more than watching Brad labor up and down the court like he was struggling through mud bogs. On some nights, when Miller just wasn't quite there, I think a number of us really would have liked to see Tag in - until it got to the point where he was so out of shape that he looked like Tractor Traylor.

See this is exactly the problem, i hate when the Kings get these scrubs THEY Rely on them TO much... they expect them to deliver once there on the Basketball court thats not how it goes heck we just don't have a good front-court rotation and it has been that way for a few years so the reason they rely on them is not only because they expect them to deliver they just don't have to many big-mans to work with.

[VF21]

See this is exactly the problem, i hate when the Kings get these scrubs THEY Rely on them TO much... they expect them to deliver once there on the Basketball court thats not how it goes heck we just don't have a good front-court rotation and it has been that way for a few years so the reason they rely on them is not only because they expect them to deliver they just don't have to many big-mans to work with.

Yeah, how dare we actually think a professional NBA player, even at the lower end of the scale, might actually be able to contribute in some small way to a professional NBA team? We must all be delusional.

What's wrong with people being optimistic? Lately this whole place is just one big oozing pool of dour comments about the team, the future, the new players, etc.

I'm sorry but I'm not going to stop being optimistic. I'm a Kings homer; I've never claimed to be anything else. And I'm going to assume that maybe, just maybe, the scouts, the coaches, Geoff Petrie and his staff, etc. know what they're doing for the most part and just might be privy to better information than we have.

Bottom line, Loren Woods IS 7'2". He can stand under the basket, hold his arms up, and the occasional shot from outside might just bounce off one of them. If he wiggles those arms, the chances get better. If he actually has any hand to eye coordination, the chances sky-rocket that he might block a shot or three.

We paid less than $1 million for him. I'm not advocating putting him into the regular rotation quite yet, but I'm not going to be upset about the acquisition. You get what you pay for. At the price we paid, if he can walk to midcourt and just stand there, I think we got a bargain.

;)

[Jerryaki]

Bottom line, Loren Woods IS 7'2". He can stand under the basket, hold his arms up, and the occasional shot from outside might just bounce off one of them. If he wiggles those arms, the chances get better. If he actually has any hand to eye coordination, the chances sky-rocket that he might block a shot or three.

but...that's goaltending! :p

[BigWaxer]

OH ya but HOW can we play anyone that is "heavty" and has BLUE SPEEDO'S ON!!!!!!!!! :) :)

[Gary]

Think of Loren Woods as a poor mans Keon Clark type player.

If he brings his "A" game to Sacramento than we will have a player like Keon but taller. I'm all for having him here.

I don't get why people are so dissapointed. The amount of money that he is getting is far lower than guys that we don't even use. If you want to get mad than get mad at all those salaries that are going to waste. They are why we don't have a big name this summer.

[Rome]

Think of Loren Woods as a poor mans Keon Clark type player.

If he brings his "A" game to Sacramento than we will have a player like Keon but taller. I'm all for having him here.

I don't get why people are so dissapointed. The amount of money that he is getting is far lower than guys that we don't even use. If you want to get mad than get mad at all those salaries that are going to waste. They are why we don't have a big name this summer.

agreed.

[Čarolija]

Think of Loren Woods as a poor mans Keon Clark type player.

If he brings his "A" game to Sacramento than we will have a player like Keon but taller. I'm all for having him here.

I don't get why people are so dissapointed. The amount of money that he is getting is far lower than guys that we don't even use. If you want to get mad than get mad at all those salaries that are going to waste. They are why we don't have a big name this summer.
I am not disappointed that we got Woods but I am disappointed if he is the "great white hope" for our interior defence. I think Woods is a good value for money. In other words a perfect 3rd C and 12th/13th guy on the roster. What people here are "disappointed" about is some posters making him out to be something he is not and thats a major minutes rotation player that can make our interior D better. He does have some of the skills we need but he is in no way in improvement. He replaces Jamal Sampson. Woods is better than Jamal but he just isn't good enough to be a majot rotation minutes player on a play off team. When I say major minutes rotation player, I am talking about 20mpg type. Something that Pollard and Keon were for us.

Loren Woods in his 10 odd minutes per game will do nothing to improve our D and with Miller, SAR and Thomas on the roster, I just can't see him getting any more than 10-odd mpg and that doesn't include playing him every game. But for a veteran minimum thats the sort of player you can expect. If people are expecting anything more than that, then they are having unreasonable expectations.

[Entity]

I am sorry is it just me or is hard to tell that Bricklayer is a Kings fan. Lets recap. Bibby is awful on defense and is not a true PG. Kevin Martin is young and inconsistant and Bonzi would have been better. Artest is a great player just concerend about his mind. Reef tweener PF poor rebound bad shotblocker laughable defender. KT Tweener at best not a threat to visiting team. Miller slow can't jump help defense is awful can post up anybody. Woods uhm need not mention. Salmons not the answer. Hart awful. Amundson and Williams young will never make it. Douby well at least his photos look good.

Does that about sum up your opinions of supposedly you favorite basketball team.

I would love to see Bricklayers version of the media guide.
And if this is your favorite team tell us somethings about other team i bet they all are scum of the earth talentless peons that need to play crochet.

[Kings113]

Some of the the things are true or to some degree about some of the players mentioned. But I don't agree with all of it.

[SLAB]

I am sorry is it just me or is hard to tell that Bricklayer is a Kings fan. Lets recap. Bibby is awful on defense and is not a true PG.
True.

Kevin Martin is young and inconsistant and Bonzi would have been better.
True.

Artest is a great player just concerend about his mind.
True.

Reef tweener PF poor rebound bad shotblocker laughable defender.
True.

KT Tweener at best not a threat to visiting team.
True.

Miller slow can't jump help defense is awful can post up anybody.
True.

Woods uhm need not mention. Salmons not the answer. Hart awful. Amundson and Williams young will never make it. Douby well at least his photos look good.

Woods--- Who cares...He's cheap...And he's better then Potopenko.
Salmons--- Very true.
Hart--- Very True.
Amundsen/Williams--- We'll see
Douby--- We'll see


Point being, players have negative qualities...Pointing them out doesnt make you any less of a fan...Being a pessimist doesn't make you any less of a fan.

And for all their chronicled negatives, each (most) player has some positives to go with them.

[Entity]

yeah maybe so. But every player we have and every player we had. Brick only talks about what he can't do. Then after they are off the team he compares new players to them as if they were great when they were here. I am sorry but Hedo, Jim, Scot were not this awesome bench that got us far in the playoffs. if so then John Salmons is going to impress he is better then Jim, Hedo and Bobby and of course Scot and Keon. Better talent wise i know he is not a better shot blocker than Keon.

[Sac.Kings]

Was it Keon that dunked in Nowitzki's face that one time?

[SLAB]

Woods, Im perfectly happy with...He is cheap...He is 7'2...He can block shots...He is better than Potopenko...And he is automatically our best interior defender by default.

Salmons however still irks me...Sure, he may be able to contribute in a Jimmy Jackson type way...He may score us 7/3/3 every night, but damn it I want my 25 million dollars going to something better than that...The Maloofs are so luxery-tax defiant, why sign Salmons, yet another swing man, when we have someone who can get us very near those numbers, with even a block or two on given nights in Cisco Garcia.

I have to wait to jump down his throat any more though.

Woods Im happy with.

[Entity]

Slab i understand nothing wrong with pointing out the bad parts. But just once every 10 years or so lets say hey that guy is going to do exactly what we need him to do. i mean if i went in every year thinking there is noway we are making the playoffs why in the hell would i watch. Just to bash? eh anyway maybe its just me i just don't see me as a fan constanly looking at the bad in everybody and not thinking we could be a great team.

[SLAB]

Yes yes, I see what your saying.

Im also generally optimistic, but there is just some stuff that gets under my skin and I can't get over (see: John Salmons and 25 million).

[Entity]

Yes yes, I see what your saying.

Im also generally optimistic, but there is just some stuff that gets under my skin and I can't get over (see: John Salmons and 25 million).

Hell thats cheap these days. And I wouldn't worry much about it you will see how much he helps us. If you don't mind i am going to save this post so i can show you about 2 months into the season.

[SLAB]

I have my fingers very much crossed that I am wrong about John Salmons.

I really hope Im proved wrong in a few months.

We'll see!

[Čarolija]

yeah maybe so. But every player we have and every player we had. Brick only talks about what he can't do. Then after they are off the team he compares new players to them as if they were great when they were here. I am sorry but Hedo, Jim, Scot were not this awesome bench that got us far in the playoffs. if so then John Salmons is going to impress he is better then Jim, Hedo and Bobby and of course Scot and Keon. Better talent wise i know he is not a better shot blocker than Keon.
What ever you are smoking, pass it around because that some sriously strong ****!

John Salmons could very well inpress but in no way is he better than the players you mentioned.

[GoGoGadget]

I am sorry is it just me or is hard to tell that Bricklayer is a Kings fan.

Just you.

[bibbyweb]

People are really down on Salmons. Not that I am really too excited about him either. But the way I see it we have paid market rate to him. He was getting almost similar amounts from Pheonix and Toronto. So we willl see.

[TheJoker]

I am sorry is it just me or is hard to tell that Bricklayer is a Kings fan.

I'm not gonna speak for Brick, but thats very disrespectful first of all, Brick is breaking down things "Objectively". what makes you think just because hes telling the truth makes him less of a Kings fan?

[NewMonkey]

Was it Keon that dunked in Nowitzki's face that one time?

You're thinking of Jim Jackson. He tore through both Nowitzki and Shawn Bradley, nearly ripped the rim down and almost killed both of them in the process. It was one of the most impressive dunks I've ever seen.

[VF21]

I'm not gonna speak for Brick, but thats very disrespectful first of all, Brick is breaking down things "Objectively". what makes you think just because hes telling the truth makes him less of a Kings fan?

You probably should have stopped right there. Bricklayer and Entity go back and forth all the time. If you notice, pretty much everyone else steps out of the way. Bricklayer is more than competent to fight his own battles.

Just an FYI...

[TheJoker]

Brick, is probably my favorite poster in here, no biggie. ;)

[Sptsjunkie]

Point being, players have negative qualities...Pointing them out doesnt make you any less of a fan...Being a pessimist doesn't make you any less of a fan.

And for all their chronicled negatives, each (most) player has some positives to go with them.

I completley agree. I think Brick is one of the biggest Kings fans here. Is he negative? Yes. However, he's only so harsh because he cares. He's obviously not a troll who likes another team, so if he was only a so-so fan, he'd just be indifferent at this point. He's passionate because he cares.

I am a huge Kings fan (bleed purple and black), but I honestly believe that Brick is just as big of a fan as I am. Being a fan does not mean being blindly loyal.

The main areas where Brick and I disagree on is in player evaluation (huge variance between everyone on the board), Petrie's genius (subjective), and expectations. Expectations-wise, I see us as progressing well for a rebuilding franchise. Brick one the other hand, is mad that our team made some questionable moves and is not still a dynasty. This does not mean he isn't a fan, it just means that he disagrees. Isn't that what this message board is all about. If we all shared the same opinion, the board would be boring.

My main issue with Brick is that I feel he sometimes goes for personal attacks (e.g. you have your head between your you know what, or you foolishly worship at the house of Petrie) instead of making his usual factual/statistical backed arguments. If he stuck to the debates, I'd have no problem with him whatsoever. Just like in business, I don't want to surround myself with a bunch of "yes men." People are entitled to their own opinions and true wisdom comes from dissenting opinions, not mindless agreement.

[SacTownKid]

Just a question so I understand more. But what players were wasted on the bench? I am assuming TAG? Skinner? but this goes for pretty much any of them. So my question is do you think playing these bench players would have yielded us better results in the end? Meaning not being bounced early in the playoffs.


It would have helped and it often did when they were in and given consistent minutes. Also if nothing else it could have given Brad a little time to rest.

When you look at a team that was playing ZERO defense (pre-Ron that is) and there was a complete open 4 lane highway to the basket at all times, I would figure you would put in a guy that could help in that area. That was the reason Tag was brought to the team 2 years ago, and why Loren is now. The Tag issue is a dead horse and my opinion on the matter is well documented.

I don't know if they would have helped from us being bounced early, but they could have helped in my opinion. Tag moreso than Brian.

[Bricklayer]

Slab i understand nothing wrong with pointing out the bad parts. But just once every 10 years or so lets say hey that guy is going to do exactly what we need him to do. i mean if i went in every year thinking there is noway we are making the playoffs why in the hell would i watch. Just to bash? eh anyway maybe its just me i just don't see me as a fan constanly looking at the bad in everybody and not thinking we could be a great team.


You know Entity, my orignal response to this looked a little different, but I frankly decided that a critique coming from you of all people is pretty much a compliment in my book. I have no more use for a so called "fan" who apparently would not be so if he couldn't delude himself into believing his team will win a title every year than you do for one who is going to admit that his own team's **** often stinks.

P.S. As an aside, next time you decide to post a pissy little rant, at least get your bleeping facts straight. Bruised as I'm sure poor little you are by the negativity around here, you repeatedly conflate other people's schticks with my own and then attribute them all to me. NBrans is the Bibby can't play defense guy. I'm the Bibby can't play defense but we've got bigger issues guy.

[Jerryaki]

I am sorry but Hedo, Jim, Scot were not this awesome bench that got us far in the playoffs.

:eek: ...

look at the arguments we're getting into! man...offseason ****ing sucks.

[Kings113]

Loren Woods is the man of the damn month! Everyone's glitzing, awing, and wondering. :)

[bajaden]

I'm not gonna speak for Brick, but thats very disrespectful first of all, Brick is breaking down things "Objectively". what makes you think just because hes telling the truth makes him less of a Kings fan?

First of all, I wouldn't use the word " Objectively " so loosely. For someone to be objective on this fourm they would have to have no vested interest in the outcome of the Kings season. I don't think any of us could say that. Truth is in the eye of the beholder unless your talking about the bible. Bricky see things from a different prospective than I do. Doesn't make him wrong and it doesn't make him right. Were all just speculating with the info we have, and we all consume it differently. One thing I'am sure of though, is that if Brick's has a negative opinion about a player, there is no one who wants that opinion to be wrong more than him. Well, maybe me. Anyway, I would never challenge his loyality as a fan. Just his opinion once in a while.:cool:

[SacTownKid]

It always easiest to take the cynical approach. When you are right you can say, "I told you so!" When you're wrong you can say "Boy, good thing I was wrong!"

[Entity]

Poor Loren.

[Kings113]

Poor back-up C on a one-year 950K deal who is coming into a different situation, and likely his last. ;)

[SacKings4Life21]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/woodslo01.html

Check this out... we need a rebounder and a shot blocker... when he gets minutes he averages 11+ rebounds and 2.5 blocks. He is a great pick up. He isnt going to be some all star but for 1 mil he is what we needed. Lets see if he can get a chance to play his game for us.

[uolj]

The point has already been made a bunch of times, but the Kings need a rebounder and shotblocker who is good enough to play major minutes on a contending team, not one who can barely crack the lineup on a lottery team. It's not a bad deal for such a small salary, but Loren Woods is not what the Kings needed.

[Kings113]

He could help in what we need, but not be the "answer". The "answer(s)" we couldn't get this summer for obvious reasons. Simple as that.

Have to rely on trades now until the deadline, and when he makes the team, Justin Williams to develop.

[kennadog]

Maybe its been mentioned, but I don't have time right now. Friday, Grant said that only a very small part of Woods contract is guaranteed and that he still has to make the team in training camp. Did anyone else hear that or hear it somewhere else?

[Kings113]

I don't care. Woods rules everyone. :)

[SacTownKid]

I would be surprised if Loren's contract wasn't fully guaranteed.

[Rome]

I would be surprised if Loren's contract wasn't fully guaranteed.

I woudn't. Kid still has to prove him self just like the other guys on the team. with the he way he he's developing, its like he's still a rookie.

[Mika]

Wood´s statistics of last 8 games, last season.

[Sac.Kings]

he does solid when he gets minutes.

[Gary]

Yah but so did Brian Skinner.

At least this guy is 7'+