How are the Kings going to move Kenny Thomas?

[NoBonus]

Here is my burning TDOS question: How are the Kings going to move Kenny Thomas? In my opinion, he is a puzzle piece that needs to be moved. I see him as inconsistent, in a contract bad for the team, and a head case (e.g. he can play well when starting, but not off the bench). But who can the Kings trade him for? Certainly he will need to be packaged, but I would hate to lose a bunch more players just to move him.

There must be other players that are "must moves" this offseason like Kenyon Martin that may provide an opportunity for the Kings to find a player that did not fit in somewhere else for KT, the King that does not fit.

Any ideas?

[NoBonus]

Here are my realgm approved scenarios so far:

Kenny Thomas to Washington for Etan Thomas.

Kenny Thomas to Seattle for Danny Fortson.

[Bricklayer]

He's just not a major enough player to have this much angst about No Bonus. ;)


P.S. And Danny Fortson would be one of those asking for it type moves. You move KT because you're worried about him being disruptive and bring back...Danny Fortson? :eek:

[Kings113]

Yeah I don't know about Fortson at all...

I like moving KT/Hart to Minny for Griffin/Jaric or Hudson. Wolves have said a number of times they want a rebounder to help KG

Then go sign Elson or Cato (he'll be rehabbing his ankle) for back-up C.

Or trying to get Magloire or Gadzuric w/ Bell for KT/Hart.

[NoBonus]

He's just not a major enough player to have this much angst about No Bonus. ;)


P.S. And Danny Fortson would be one of those asking for it type moves. You move KT because you're worried about him being disruptive and bring back...Danny Fortson? :eek:

I don't hate the guy, I just see him as a move needing to be made... however, I may have gone overboard suggesting we trade him for Fortson.

[Larry89]

the geoff petrie effect?

[Warhawk]

KT, Corliss, and Pot for KG? Heck, I'd throw in Hart if they asked nicely....

Not sure how the salaries line up, but I'm sure GP can pull his Jedi mind tricks on that one to make it work, right? :)

[Sackings8390]

The knicks always take on new players

call isiah

[HndsmCelt]

KT's contract will be very very hard to move and will no doubt have to part of a package just like we got him. Fortson is not the answer unless the question is how do we assure total team meltdown in 2007.

[LPKingsFan]

Some options that come to mind:

To the NETS for Cliff's expring deal.

Geoff almost shipped him off to the BUCKS before, and may be able to do so yet, depending on how the Magloire situation goes down there.

Shipping him to the KNICKS for Crawford would get the Kings their combo 1/2 guard.

And of course, my favorite is to the WIZARDS for Etan Thomas. But why do the Wiz do it?

[BMiller52]

Kenny+Potapenko+Hart to Denver for Kenyon Martin+3 million in cash

[master]

Some options:

McInnis+Cliff Robinson
Juwan Howard
Danny Fortson
Joe Smith
Etan Thomas
Eric Snow

[kpm308]

How about a trade to Houston for Swift and a throw in (Bowen, Lampe?)

Thomas would fit very well for Houston in the Juwan Howard role and Kenny seems to play better in an offense like Van Gundy's where the majority of the plays are set plays called from the bench, rather than read/recognition offense that he has struggled with since being here. His lack of size can kinda be hidden with Yao and McGrady both being tall.

Swift would bring us a shotblocker and decent rebounder off the bench, which is what we've been needing, and he doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective, he gets most of his points on hustle plays/putbacks. He was a disapointment in Houston and never really fit in. The good thing about this trade for the Kings is that Musselman was an assistant in Memphis with Swift, so he will understand what needs to be done to make Swift effective, and I think if we could get Swift playing at the level he was in Memphis it would be worth trading away KT to be able to bring Swift off the bench to swat at some balls and hang out around the rim.

[NoBonus]

How about a trade to Houston for Swift and a throw in (Bowen, Lampe?)

Thomas would fit very well for Houston in the Juwan Howard role and Kenny seems to play better in an offense like Van Gundy's where the majority of the plays are set plays called from the bench, rather than read/recognition offense that he has struggled with since being here. His lack of size can kinda be hidden with Yao and McGrady both being tall.

Swift would bring us a shotblocker and decent rebounder off the bench, which is what we've been needing, and he doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective, he gets most of his points on hustle plays/putbacks. He was a disapointment in Houston and never really fit in. The good thing about this trade for the Kings is that Musselman was an assistant in Memphis with Swift, so he will understand what needs to be done to make Swift effective, and I think if we could get Swift playing at the level he was in Memphis it would be worth trading away KT to be able to bring Swift off the bench to swat at some balls and hang out around the rim.

That's the ticket!

[Kings113]

Some options:

McInnis+Cliff Robinson
Juwan Howard
Danny Fortson
Joe Smith
Etan Thomas
Eric Snow

Maybe on first.

Probably on Howard.

No on Fortson.

Yes on Smith

Yes on Etan

Yes on Snow.

I also can dig the Swift deal.

[VF21]

The problem isn't going to be finding suitable candidates that we'd like to replace Kenny with. It's going to be convincing/mesmerizing the general manager at the OTHER end of the line that acquiring a contract that stretches to 2010 is a good thing. Especially considering KT's performances fluctuations.

[HndsmCelt]

Yup, bottom line is that IF the Kings are going to get rid of Kenny they wil have to essentially have to pay someone to take take him. What this means is he becoms a throw in in a deal for one of the Kings more desireable playes. I would love to see him go but when the deal goes down and the Kings have to give up say Bonzi or Kevin Martin lets not hear too much complaint that Petrie should have gotten better for the OTHER guy in the deal. Fact is Kenny's contract is the preverbal albatross aarround the Kings neck.

[pdxKingsFan]

Or we can take on someone else's bad contract and hope that the change of scenery does some good. Isn't that pretty much what the Swift deal would be? Its not like Kenny sucks, he's just not a great fit for us with the weaknesses we already have and a superior offensive player competing for his spot.

[HndsmCelt]

Or we can take on someone else's bad contract and hope that the change of scenery does some good. Isn't that pretty much what the Swift deal would be? Its not like Kenny sucks, he's just not a great fit for us with the weaknesses we already have and a superior offensive player competing for his spot. Exactlly... might swap over paid role player for over paid roll player and come out a little better but no way do we trade Kenny solo for much, and even in a package Kings will have to work the deal.

[Sackings8390]

sing and trade deal

Kings get:Ben Wallace,Delk,1st round pick
Pistons get:Bonzi,KT,GArcia

[NewMonkey]

The problem isn't going to be finding suitable candidates that we'd like to replace Kenny with. It's going to be convincing/mesmerizing the general manager at the OTHER end of the line that acquiring a contract that stretches to 2010 is a good thing. Especially considering KT's performances fluctuations.

The Kings did almost get Desmond Mason for KT, which I would have considered a steal. Plus, Isiah Thomas is still a GM in the NBA, so no player is untradable when you're dealing with the Knicks.

[Kings113]

Other than Frye/Lee who would we like? I like Nate Robinson but we already got Ronnie Price suited to begin real time with the Kings.

I think we could get Lee, who had a solid rookie year and would suit what we need from a big, just not a shot-blocker. Jamal Crawford would be great if we lose Bonzi, replace his spot in the rotation, while Kevin could start.

[HaraWish]

I cannot calculate the exact salary.

However, I think Bucks and Hawks may need KT.

I prefer trade with Hawks, both because they'll lose Al Harrington or/and Pachulia this summer, and because they have attractive players. IMO, Tyrone Lue and Salim Stoudermire will be good to Kings. Especially Salim. I think him very highly, and he's a young B-Jax, or more explosive.

And... maybe they'll show interests in Jason Hart, because they badly need a PG, who can support Joe Johnson.

Hawks' roster is so odd, just full of atheletic swingmen. So they may be interested in Corliss and Potapenko, too

[TCH]

How about a trade to Houston for Swift and a throw in (Bowen, Lampe?)

Thomas would fit very well for Houston in the Juwan Howard role and Kenny seems to play better in an offense like Van Gundy's where the majority of the plays are set plays called from the bench, rather than read/recognition offense that he has struggled with since being here. His lack of size can kinda be hidden with Yao and McGrady both being tall.

Swift would bring us a shotblocker and decent rebounder off the bench, which is what we've been needing, and he doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective, he gets most of his points on hustle plays/putbacks. He was a disapointment in Houston and never really fit in. The good thing about this trade for the Kings is that Musselman was an assistant in Memphis with Swift, so he will understand what needs to be done to make Swift effective, and I think if we could get Swift playing at the level he was in Memphis it would be worth trading away KT to be able to bring Swift off the bench to swat at some balls and hang out around the rim.

Swift would be nice, but only if we can get Luther Head also.

Bibby Head:D

[walker60]

Sac gets:
E. Thomas
A. Daniels
C. Booth
#18 pick

Washington gets:
Bonzi
KT
J.Hart

Wizards need a SG really bad, we get a backup C and PG who both play defense. We could release Booth, he's just a throw in to make they salaries match. Would we want to do this? Think the Wiz would bite?

[LPKingsFan]

I'd only do that if we could turn around and turn the #18 and #19 picks into a lottery pick.

[walker60]

Ya maybe we could take picks 18 and 19 to trade up high enough and get S. Williams. Him and SAR would be a nice 1-2 punch at PF. Just some thoughts...

[BMiller52]

Sac gets:
E. Thomas
A. Daniels
C. Booth
#18 pick

Washington gets:
Bonzi
KT
J.Hart

Wizards need a SG really bad, we get a backup C and PG who both play defense. We could release Booth, he's just a throw in to make they salaries match. Would we want to do this? Think the Wiz would bite?


That deal is friggin awesome. Like people said hopefully we could trade 18+19 for a higher pick and grab SHAWNE WILLIAMS! lol But seriously the guy is insanely talented.

[Kings113]

I also dig that deal, walker60.

[VF21]

I bet Bonzi wouldn't. Remember, any sign and trade with him HAS to have his approval.

[walker60]

Ya that's true, but if Bonzi wants to get more than the MLE, he might be willing to go somewhere where he can get his money. I'm not sure any of the teams out there with cap room would be willing to spend it to get Bonzi. I guess I thought that about Cat Mobley last year and look at the deal he got...:confused:

[VF21]

I honestly don't see the Maloofs letting Bonzi go. They LIKE him. Ron likes him. Petrie likes him. The fans love him. The Maloofs have opened their wallets before; I think there's every reason to suspect they'll do so again.

AND Bonzi has said it's not just about the money. After bouncing around, he's found a home here. He loves the team, he loves the fans. If he's given a fair offer, he's going to stay.

[DaMan]

How about a trade to Houston for Swift and a throw in (Bowen, Lampe?)

Thomas would fit very well for Houston in the Juwan Howard role and Kenny seems to play better in an offense like Van Gundy's where the majority of the plays are set plays called from the bench, rather than read/recognition offense that he has struggled with since being here. His lack of size can kinda be hidden with Yao and McGrady both being tall.

Swift would bring us a shotblocker and decent rebounder off the bench, which is what we've been needing, and he doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective, he gets most of his points on hustle plays/putbacks. He was a disapointment in Houston and never really fit in. The good thing about this trade for the Kings is that Musselman was an assistant in Memphis with Swift, so he will understand what needs to be done to make Swift effective, and I think if we could get Swift playing at the level he was in Memphis it would be worth trading away KT to be able to bring Swift off the bench to swat at some balls and hang out around the rim.

This is a great idea, houston would take thomas, they really did not like swift's perfomce last year. And also i like the nj deal going around also.

[Kings113]

Totally agree, VF.

[SacTownKid]

He's just not a major enough player to have this much angst about No Bonus. ;)


P.S. And Danny Fortson would be one of those asking for it type moves. You move KT because you're worried about him being disruptive and bring back...Danny Fortson? :eek:
Two words: Contract year. ;)

As for Etan, everyone knows that would be my dream come true. He is exactly what we need. Of course his contracts sucks as bad as Kenny, and Kenny is a better overall player, but Etan brings what we need. Wiz would easily look to do that deal.

[Čarolija]

I am a bit confused by this Stro Swift idea.

Seriously people he has been nothing but a huge under-achiever all his career. Its not about the situation its about the player.

He kicked up a fuss in Memphis, wanted a big payday but signed for lot less than he though he would.

He is undersized but he would make up for it with his athleticism.. However, the knock on him for years has been his lack of work ethic and his poor defence. For a player of his athletic ability he is a VERY poor rebounder and even poorer defender. Couple that with low IQ and not a lot of offensive game and you get an overhyped, overpaid underachieving talent.

Muss was at Grizzlies while Stro was still there and I am sure he wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole.

[whozit]

I bet Bonzi wouldn't. Remember, any sign and trade with him HAS to have his approval.Add to that, he can't even be approached until the 1st of July, after the draft has occured.

[master]

I think the Rockets would do a Juwan Howard for Kenny Thomas (Howard +3 years, Thomas +4 years), but I don't think they trade Swift for Thomas.

Other option Kenny for Haslem+Kapono. I don't like Haslem, but I think some teams like him, Kings could do another trade, he is much more easy to move than Kenny.

[thesanityannex]

Question:


Would it make any sense to waive Kenny Thomas if the Kings can't move him?

[master]

Question:


Would it make any sense to waive Kenny Thomas if the Kings can't move him?
Ehh, NO. Why???? If we can get a smaller contract or pack him with other players in a decent trade ok. If not, he can play his minutes. The problem is he's overpaid and 4 more years, but he is a useful player. If we waive him his contract still counts, so it don't make any any any sense.

[thesanityannex]

Ehh, NO. Why???? If we can get a smaller contract or pack him with other players in a decent trade ok. If not, he can play his minutes. The problem is he's overpaid and 4 more years, but he is a useful player. If we waive him his contract still counts, so it don't make any any any sense.ahh............didn't realize his contract was that long. thanks for clearing that up.

[Bricklayer]

I think the Rockets would do a Juwan Howard for Kenny Thomas (Howard +3 years, Thomas +4 years), but I don't think they trade Swift for Thomas.

Other option Kenny for Haslem+Kapono. I don't like Haslem, but I think some teams like him, Kings could do another trade, he is much more easy to move than Kenny.


Well the first one would be an obvious no, as in no need of an ancient shoplifting mediocre softie tweener forward. We'll stick with the guy we've got.

The 2nd one is more interesting. Not really exciting, and the fact is Haslem is only a shade bigger than Kenny. But he's a dirt worker and accepts his role, so...maybe. Of course frankly I doubt the Heat do that. Haslem being the dirtywork PF that Riley always loves to have (Rambis, Green, Oakley, PJ Brown) etc., and now the PF on a Finals team. Not sure why they would want an undersized non-defender in return.

Swift...well, Swift more or less failed in Houston, and had a disappointing season (although I should note I am not at all sure JVG used him correctly). But if you are trying to dump Kenny's contract and attitude, add length + athleticism, why not? If it were the ONLY move you made to fortify the frontcourt...no. Amongst other things I've mentioned that we simply cannot lose Kenny without adding a major rebounder in return, especially not if Bonzi also goes. But as a way to move the KT deal, and PART of a frontcourt restructuring? Sure. Add some length and shotblocking off the bench. Be that 2nd shotblocker that you need to truly have presence in there. But you would still need to go out and get the FIRST shotblocker/defender and main man, because that isn't Swift.

[kingsfanofthemonth]

I don't remember, what was K9's original tenure with the Rockets like? Is he a player they would be interested in? Was he traded or did he sign with Philidelphia? I like the idea of a K9 for Stromile trade however I'm not totally sure K9 would be a player that Houston would want back in the mix.

[Kings113]

I think he'd compliment Yao's lack of speed. KT would be much better next to centers like Nazr/Shaq/Yao/Camby.. Brad/KT I don't know about.

[Gary]

There is a guy out there that is averaging ;

10.7ppg 9.4rpg 2.4apg 1.2spg 0.5bpg and 2.0TOpg.

Would you want him? He started 50+ games and put up those stats last year. OK so that is what KT did as a starter. If we cannot move him than it's not the end of the world. Worse case scenario is that he cries at the end of the bench until his contract is up (or he is moved). But again, not the end of the world if he isn't moved. But imo I think we need to move either KT, or Brad, because as was said above, they don't compliment each other as players. The one thing I do like about KT is that he does crash the offensive boards VERY well. As a starter for us I believe he was getting 3 offensive boards per game which isnt all that bad.

[walker60]

There is a guy out there that is averaging ;

10.7ppg 9.4rpg 2.4apg 1.2spg 0.5bpg and 2.0TOpg.

Would you want him? He started 50+ games and put up those stats last year. OK so that is what KT did as a starter. If we cannot move him than it's not the end of the world. Worse case scenario is that he cries at the end of the bench until his contract is up (or he is moved). But again, not the end of the world if he isn't moved. But imo I think we need to move either KT, or Brad, because as was said above, they don't compliment each other as players.

That's a good point Gary...

[Kings113]

Yeah, that's similar to what I've been saying, Gary.

Realistically in moving, it'll be one of Brad/KT. Gotta be. To bring in a PF (Griffin) to compliment Brad or a C (Nazr/Magloire/Gadz) that compliments KT. Moving both I'd say doesn't happen. Then, sign a back-up C just with the LLE or if there's any of the MLE left (Elson/Cato/Kandi). Unless we keep Potapenko and Brad's not here, that could be fine. As a Pota/Brad center spot isn't good, IMO.

[Gary]

Also, those 3 offensive rebounds that he was averaging as a starter is in the top twelve in the league.

You don't go replacing KT with the likes of a Joe Smith and think it's going to improve you. I think we were spoiled with Webber and KTs stats, look like tin compared to Webber gold. We can improve in other areas if we can't find outselves a PF. Develop our bench, get a decent backup PG.

Lets say Bonzi doesn't resign, and we are looking at going into 2006-07 with ;

C-Miller
PF-KT
SF-Artest
SG-Martin
PG-Bibby

Our first problem with this lineup is team defense, scoring, and rebounding. Lets go to the bench. (I put "Nobody" into the position that really doesn't have a player we as fans trust to fill that position).

C-Nobody
PF-SAR
SF-Nobody
SG-Garcia
PG-Nobody

We can start improving our team by getting a bench.

We need scoring. OK Bobby Jackson, or Speedy Claxton. There we go, solved. That is our scoring punch off the bench, which can also come in if our starters are struggling. Rebounding.... Well Griffin from Minnesota can play Center, and PF. That would solve a HUGE problem with defense, and rebounding. With those two acquisitions we go nine deep, and have guys that can spot start and produce. Team fixed w/o getting rid of KT's contract. (although to get Griffin I am sure we will have to give up one of the nine)

[Kings113]

Tyronn Lue or Charlie Bell wouldn't be bad options if we couldn't get Claxton or didn't want to get B-Jax again. Both are scoring PGs/combo guards and can defend and shoot.

Griffin is more of a PF than center, BTW. Yes, in stretches he can play C.

Still think you need another defensive big man off the bench, and wouldn't cost much like Elson/Cato/Kandi. Elson being the best option there.

SF or SG (Garcia can play either) in that situation we would get a guy like R. Butler/Jumaine Jones/Buckner. Can't see us having Artest and 3 youngsters (martin/garcia/monia).

[LPKingsFan]

Yeah, that's similar to what I've been saying, Gary.

Realistically in moving, it'll be one of Brad/KT. Gotta be. To bring in a PF (Griffin) to compliment Brad or a C (Nazr/Magloire/Gadz) that compliments KT. Moving both I'd say doesn't happen. Then, sign a back-up C just with the LLE or if there's any of the MLE left (Elson/Cato/Kandi). Unless we keep Potapenko and Brad's not here, that could be fine. As a Pota/Brad center spot isn't good, IMO.

Kenny Thomas is not the kind of player you should have to work to find complimentary players to build around him. Brad Miller is at least a unique enough talent that it's worth going out of your way to find patches to cover his defensive liablilites. But Kenny Thomas can be easily replaced by the likes of Reggie F. Evans.

[Kings113]

Building around him? That wasn't my intent. My intent was to improve the front court play and defense, which would clearly be needed with Brad/KT/SAR/Potapenko. That's not a very good front-court. You need some defense and athleticism in there, and you're gonna have to make 1-2 addtions and subtractions from that 4 to do that. And, in the case IF Brad Miller is indeed moved, you'd get a defensive center next to Kenny Thomas. Simple as that. I don't expect 4/4, 3/4 of that group to be back. Maybe even 2/4, myself.

[Entity]

KT + Garcia + Jason Hart for Magloire and Mo Williams. millwalkee wants Bogut at the Center spot and they really don't have athleticism at the pf spot they have a bunch of Centers. Kenny would actually fit well there. Plus we get our backup pg out of the deal although we would loose Garcia if we keep Bonzi the minutes aren't going to be there for him anyway.

[Kings113]

I'd rather try to get Bell first, but would definitely take Mo. Reason being Charlie's a damn good defender and a very good scorer. But I think Mo CAN be a good defender under the right coach - could well be Muss. As he didn't play much as a rook with the Jazz under Sloan, and only came into his own last season. Obviously Stotts isn't a defensive coach.

I think they'd do that... not sure about a Magloire/Brad FC though.

[Čarolija]

Wizards GM was quoted as saying that he wants to get more mobile PF and play a bit of a "small ball" and apparently Ethan Thomas, Haywood and Hayes have been discussed as trade options.

I would do Kenny for Ethan trade.

Mo Williams is apparently also available. He would be a perfect back up PG for us.

[Kings113]

Ooh, nice... I like all four of those guys. Don't need Hayes unless Bonzi goes, but Hayes has gotta stay healthy.

[Kings113]

Do Etan for KT...

Then go and get a big like Griffin/Elson/Ely/Wright and slot him in somewhere. All 5 can play PF or C.

Bibby
Bonzi-Martin
Ron
Etan/SAR
Brad/Elson (signed w/ part of MLE/LLE)

or

Bibby
Martin
Ron
Griffin/SAR
Brad/Etan

Bonzi S&T'ed to Wolves for Griffin/one of their guards (Jaric/Hassell/Hudson).

[Čarolija]

Bonzi S&T'ed to Wolves for Griffin/one of their guards (Jaric/Hassell/Hudson).Don't like that one.

I want to keep Bonzi and get a back up PG that will provide spark off the bench. Mo Williams is perfect for this but I am not sure he would get a lot of minutes with Bibby here and Martin as a back up SF/SF.

I would do E. Thomas for K. Thomas easily. Both are overpaid but Ethan brings that toughness, defence, rebounding and shotblocking and he has more size than K9.

That would leave us with MLE and LLE to throw at other bigs to complement Brad, SAR and E. Thomas.

I would love to somehow get Gadzuric but it looks like the Bucks would rather move Magloire than Gadzuric.

[Kings113]

I don't like it as much as the first, but we'd have to deal Brad to get Gadz or Magloire/Mo.

[LPKingsFan]

Magloire/Mo maybe, but I think the Bucks would be delighted with a Bogut/SAR frontcourt. Gadz for Brad would be a terrible deal.

[KingsFan93]

Most of the bad hype about Kenny is because of his height, his attitude and his inconsistency, other than that he's a very good player :P

[nbrans]

I'd rather try to get Bell first, but would definitely take Mo. Reason being Charlie's a damn good defender and a very good scorer. But I think Mo CAN be a good defender under the right coach - could well be Muss. As he didn't play much as a rook with the Jazz under Sloan, and only came into his own last season. Obviously Stotts isn't a defensive coach.

I think they'd do that... not sure about a Magloire/Brad FC though.

Mo's 23 and is still improving, Charlie's 27 and is at his peak. I'll take Mo.

[NoBonus]

Most of the bad hype about Kenny is because of his height, his attitude and his inconsistency, other than that he's a very good player :P

That's like saying other than the fact that I am legally blind and experience uncontrolled, violent road-rage, I am a very good driver.

[Kings113]

I like Bell better because of his time around the sport, and a much better defender than Mo (think he can be one under the right coach though). Both are good scorers, rebounders, passers.

With that said, I'd take either of them, nbrans.

[SacTownKid]

Bring Etan Thomas to Sacramento!!!! Between he and Haywood, Etan would suit what we need more, but if we could get either that would be sweet. If they are looking for a mobile PF and want to play small ball, Kenny is the best option next to Shawn Marion.

[Kings113]

Indeed. After that, just would need a defensive back-up center, plenty out there who can be had for part of the MLE or the LLE. Front-court set.

Take care of the back-court issues (Bonzi/back-up PG), and set.

[hearns]

In other forums it looks like Nets' fans would do a Thomas for McInnis+Cliff Robinson+ #22. It's an interesting trade for both teams.

[WalMatt23]

In other forums it looks like Nets' fans would do a Thomas for McInnis+Cliff Robinson+ #22. It's an interesting trade for both teams.

I would make that trade in a hearbeat! Both Robinson and McInnis (assuming he picks up his player option for 06/07) have contracts that expire after next season whereas thomas' contract goes on for another 4 excruciating years at $6 - $8 million per season.

[Squad907]

In other forums it looks like Nets' fans would do a Thomas for McInnis+Cliff Robinson+ #22. It's an interesting trade for both teams.

I'd do it. Get rid of KT's contract for 2 expiring contracts and a second rounder, sweet. Robinson is a good role player, McInnis would offer some scoring off the bench, and we get a chance to find a gem in the draft. Let get it done

[hammystyle]

1) I like the Cliffy, McInnis and 22 deal for KT.
2) Etan for KT is marginal. While it fits a need its a serious downgrade in talent. With the way KT plays off the bench though, maybe not.
3) There was also a KT+Bonzi+Hart for Daniels, Calvin Booth, Thomas and the 18th. That's not bad, but if you could get Andray Blatche in there as well for us I think it would be great.
4) Eddie Griffin is a terrible player, and he has emotional problems.
5) KT is a lot better than Stro Swift who's a gifted athlete, but not a good basketball player.

[Kings113]

Eddie Griffin hasn't had problems since 2004. What he did was damn bad. Not saying he's a great/good guy now, but he was given a 2nd chance, and hasn't been in trouble since. Unless you mean intensity? No, he usually isn't very intense on the court. Neither is Kenny Thomas. I think with a change of scenery from gloomy Minny to Sac and Arco Arena, EG would show some passion.

[HndsmCelt]

Why is it I just don't belive the number oteam lining up to take Kenny is that long?

[Kings113]

Wizards supposedly want a mobile PF so they can play more uptempo and small. As they've said lately. KT fits that well.

Wolves have said numerous times in recent time they want a rebounder to help out KG.

Knicks would take him ;). But, we'd only take Crawford/picks. Don't think taking Lee is the direction we're going in unless he becomes our third PF for a bit.

Bucks could well take him to get some kind of a PF on their team, instead of a bunch of centers, and Joe Smith I'd think can't play 30+-40 mins anymore.

[walker60]

1) I like the Cliffy, McInnis and 22 deal for KT.
2) Etan for KT is marginal. While it fits a need its a serious downgrade in talent. With the way KT plays off the bench though, maybe not.
3) There was also a KT+Bonzi+Hart for Daniels, Calvin Booth, Thomas and the 18th. That's not bad, but if you could get Andray Blatche in there as well for us I think it would be great.
4) Eddie Griffin is a terrible player, and he has emotional problems.
5) KT is a lot better than Stro Swift who's a gifted athlete, but not a good basketball player.

I agree with pretty much everything you've said hammystyle.

(1) I like the first trade, because we are dumping a contract and gaining a 1st round pick. Cliffy and McInnis aren't very good though, and they may not help us much. They both have had some character issues as well, maybe we could buy out McInnis for the cheap or something?

(2) Etan for KT gives us a backup C. But Etan is a worse player and his contract is bad, plus it has a trade kicker (not sure hoe much though).

(3) Maybe instead of this trade we could go with KT+Bonzi+Hart for Haywood, Daniels, and Ruffin. Something along those lines perhaps? The Wizards don't seem to be too high on Haywood, maybe they would do it.

(4+5) Eddie Griffin isn't that great, neither is Stromile, but both can block shots and have potential. They have character issues as well though.

[Kings113]

Etan would give us a defensive combo big man at 6'10" 260. Can score in the post some as well.

Eddie doesn't anymore.

What has Stromile done that's bad? I haven't read anything on that, just that he's not the smartest player.

[walker60]

Etan would give us a defensive combo big man at 6'10" 260. Can score in the post some as well.

Eddie doesn't anymore.

What has Stromile done that's bad? I haven't read anything on that, just that he's not the smartest player.

I've heard numerous times that he's lazy and doesn't practice/play hard, just doesn't have the best attitude but nothing serious.

[NoBonus]

I've heard numerous times that he's lazy and doesn't practice/play hard, just doesn't have the best attitude but nothing serious.

All the makings of a champion...:p

[Bricklayer]

(2) Etan for KT gives us a backup C. But Etan is a worse player and his contract is bad, plus it has a trade kicker (not sure hoe much though).

(3) Maybe instead of this trade we could go with KT+Bonzi+Hart for Haywood, Daniels, and Ruffin. Something along those lines perhaps? The Wizards don't seem to be too high on Haywood, maybe they would do it.

(4+5) Eddie Griffin isn't that great, neither is Stromile, but both can block shots and have potential. They have character issues as well though.

2) The flip side of this is that its not always about who is the better player, its about needs. Udonis Haslem isn't a great player, but he plays his role well and is now on a Finals team. Ditto Sagana Diop, James Posey, Adrian Griffin, etc. And if Kenny can't fill our needs, then moving him for a guy who patches our weaknesses makes sense, no matter who is the "better" player. Kenny actually is kind of a problematic player in that he is not a high quality all around starter type, but has neither the game nor mentality of a roleplaying bencher. You might be better off with a quality roleplayer who knows his role and relishes it. Of course at that point you've also just traded Chris Webber for Etan Thomas, but that's water under the bridge stuff at this point. Fact is that next year I could make a very persuasive argument why we could get more use out of a roleplaying 6'9" musclular shotblocking combo PF/C than a 6'7" "better" all around pure minature PF who needs lots of minutes to be happy and productive.

3) not really interested in sacrificing a guy capable of dominating the Spurs for spare parts from a mediocre club. Haywood and Daniels have some value, but on a team hoping to contend, its as fill up the rotation guys. Moving KT would be nice, but I don't want to downgrade our talent to do so.

4+5) yep, similar questions about both. Neither is the answer by themselves. I have real doubts this is how Geoff thinks, but nonetheless its why I would liek to see us go get TWO shotblocking types next year. And if one is Griffin or Swift, cool. Youth + potential to help and energize. But I don't think you could take either guy alone as your only move and decide that they were definitely going to come through for you.

[hammystyle]

Etan would give us a defensive combo big man at 6'10" 260. Can score in the post some as well.

Eddie doesn't anymore.

What has Stromile done that's bad? I haven't read anything on that, just that he's not the smartest player.

I'm not really against any of those trades per se, I just have reservations about one for one deals. I don't like KT, but I think he's better than all of those guys. The thought of those guys is a lot better than the actuality. Why can't any of them get in the game for more than 20 minutes on bad teams? It's not like the opportunities haven't been there. Particularly Griffin and Swift, they can block shots and rebound a little, but I think they suffer at guarding their position and just play dumb basketball in general (35% shooting for Griffin??!!). Etan is a tough player, but hasn't been nearly as good since signing his contract two years ago.

Maybe they would be better for this team than KT though. Maybe anything to get rid of him is good and those guys at least provide something we lack in athletic bigs.

[hearns]

I agree with pretty much everything you've said hammystyle.

(1) I like the first trade, because we are dumping a contract and gaining a 1st round pick. Cliffy and McInnis aren't very good though, and they may not help us much. They both have had some character issues as well, maybe we could buy out McInnis for the cheap or something?

(2) Etan for KT gives us a backup C. But Etan is a worse player and his contract is bad, plus it has a trade kicker (not sure hoe much though).

(3) Maybe instead of this trade we could go with KT+Bonzi+Hart for Haywood, Daniels, and Ruffin. Something along those lines perhaps? The Wizards don't seem to be too high on Haywood, maybe they would do it.

(4+5) Eddie Griffin isn't that great, neither is Stromile, but both can block shots and have potential. They have character issues as well though.
I think McInnis would be a good back up at the pg, and a backcourt McInnis-Bibby could work some minutes. And with Cliff Robinson, use him in another trade or waive him.

[hammystyle]

Another possibility mentioned that I like a lot would be KT for Dan Gadzuric. Gadzuric is limited offensively by his terrible hands, but he plays hard and plays within himself better than those other guys.

[walker60]

I'd like to get Gadz too, I think he's deserving of more minutes than he is getting. But I think the Bucks are gonna move Magloire. If they do that, then they'll need to hold on to Gadz....I don't see how we could get him unless we really overpaid to get him.

[Kings113]

I'm not really against any of those trades per se, I just have reservations about one for one deals. I don't like KT, but I think he's better than all of those guys. The thought of those guys is a lot better than the actuality. Why can't any of them get in the game for more than 20 minutes on bad teams? It's not like the opportunities haven't been there. Particularly Griffin and Swift, they can block shots and rebound a little, but I think they suffer at guarding their position and just play dumb basketball in general (35% shooting for Griffin??!!). Etan is a tough player, but hasn't been nearly as good since signing his contract two years ago.

Maybe they would be better for this team than KT though. Maybe anything to get rid of him is good and those guys at least provide something we lack in athletic bigs.

Ah, indeed...

Griffin shot 35 percent because of a problem with his eyes. He just lost his shot that he HAD in 04-05 That's what was reported earlier this year, and another time. I believe he's been ordered by the Wolves to get the operation for it.

Griffin has played well in his limited minutes off the bench, and he would of had his best year had he not got taken out of the rotation in February for Mark Blount. Then he started playing again in April (though still not as much as before), when the Wolves were just doing auditions for next year.

Before all that Griff was getting 7-8 pts/high 6 rebs/3+ BPG. The majority playing off the bench. He was always in the top 3 or 5 (3 more than 5) in shot-blocking in the league. At one point, KG said he's the best shotblocker on the team. On EG's post defense, I haven't gathered enough on that, but asking Wolves fans at RealGM, the majority said he's not bad, but not real good. I'd say solid/decent.

I'd also like to get Gadzuric. He's gonna be stuck behind Bogut/likely Magloire (for next season anyway) for the rest of his time there.

The flip side of this is that its not always about who is the better player, its about needs. Udonis Haslem isn't a great player, but he plays his role well and is now on a Finals team. Ditto Sagana Diop, James Posey, Adrian Griffin, etc. And if Kenny can't fill our needs, then moving him for a guy who patches our weaknesses makes sense, no matter who is the "better" player. Kenny actually is kind of a problematic player in that he is not a high quality all around starter type, but has neither the game nor mentality of a roleplaying bencher. You might be better off with a quality roleplayer who knows his role and relishes it. Of course at that point you've also just traded Chris Webber for Etan Thomas, but that's water under the bridge stuff at this point. Fact is that next year I could make a very persuasive argument why we could get more use out of a roleplaying 6'9" musclular shotblocking combo PF/C than a 6'7" "better" all around pure minature PF who needs lots of minutes to be happy and productive.

I definitely agree.

[hammystyle]

[quote=Kings113]
Griffin shot 35 percent because of a problem with his eyes. He just lost his shot that he HAD in 04-05 That's what was reported earlier this year, and another time. I believe he's been ordered by the Wolves to get the operation for it. quote]

He averages 38% for his career, so that's just what he is. Honestly I can't think of a big man who shoots worse. He did shoot a lot lower on FT% though.

[Kings113]

[quote=Kings113]
Griffin shot 35 percent because of a problem with his eyes. He just lost his shot that he HAD in 04-05 That's what was reported earlier this year, and another time. I believe he's been ordered by the Wolves to get the operation for it. quote]

He averages 38% for his career, so that's just what he is. Honestly I can't think of a big man who shoots worse. He did shoot a lot lower on FT% though.

38 percent isn't good either in 04-05 or for career. But he still had his shot going in 04-05. He hasn't been a top option on offense, and if it's not on hustle points, it's jumpshots mostly. I'd say that's why he doesn't have a good percentage.

Anyway, I still like him a lot, and would be a damn good fit for us. Hell, if he didn't have that jumpshot, I'd still be into getting him.

[hammystyle]

I'd like to get Gadz too, I think he's deserving of more minutes than he is getting. But I think the Bucks are gonna move Magloire. If they do that, then they'll need to hold on to Gadz....I don't see how we could get him unless we really overpaid to get him.

I heard they were very interested in Przybilla too. I also heard they want to start Bogut at center, which is the main reason for getting rid of Magloire. More and more it looks like Przybilla could be a key figure because if he goes to Chicago or Milwaukee then maybe we could swing deals for Chandler or Gadzuric. Or maybe Big Joel comes here and we really explore options for trading Miller.

[Gary]

How about a 3 way deal involving Minnesota, Milwaukee, and Sacramento....

Sacramento Outgoing:
Kenny Thomas
Brad Miller
Francisco Garcia

Milwaukee Outgoing:
Dan Gadzuric
Mo Williams

Minnesota Outgoing:
Eddie Griffin
Marcus Banks
Mark Blount

---------------------------------------------------------

Sacramento Incoming:
Dan Gadzuric
Eddie Griffin
Mark Blount

Milwaukee Incoming:
Kenny Thomas
Marcus Banks
Francisco Garcia

Minnesota Incoming:
Brad Miller
Mo Williams

----------------------------------------------------------

Why Sacramento does this? We get 3 big men in exchange for one undersized big man, our center, and Garcia.

Why does Milwaukee do this? Milwaukee moves Bogut to center, and Has Jamaal Magloire come off the bench. They get Banks as well who has been improving, PLUS a young swing in Garcia.

Why Minnesota does this? They have a 7' center who can pass playing with a PF who can pass and rebound. Just think of the trouble Minnesota can cause teams. They also get Mo Williams who can fill in.

[LPKingsFan]

Problems:

1. Banks is a free agent
2. Minnesota makes out like bandits
3. Kings can do better with a package that includes Brad/Garcia (their net loss in this trade: -8.6 ppg, -4.9 rpg, -6.0 apg)
4. Gadz has a BYC deal which messes things up (at least until this summer, I think)
5. I doubt we'll see Magloire come off the bench again. I see the Bucks dealing him for a starting PF, shifting Bogut to C, and keeping Gadz and Joe Smith as their big men off the bench.

But I like where you're going with this. If we're going to try for two defensive big man, rather than one difference maker (which doesn't solve the problem completely but is more realistic at this point) Gadz and Griffin are two guys I'd definitely like to see imported. But I'd rather have Miller than Booth, especially considering that if Artest and Bonzi come back and we run the offense through them in the post, we're going to need Miller's jumper to space the floor.

And a Brad/KG/Ricky Davis frontcourt is scary. Don't want to facilitate that!

[phasefour]

this is my first post but i registered just to say that any trade where mark blount is coming to sac is terrible for the kings.

there was a stat somewhere that mentioned he was the worst pound for pound rebounder in the league (bonzi being very near the top)

[walker60]

Ya I like the idea, although it wouldn't work for the reasons mentioned above. If we keep Bonzi, I don't think we should get rid of Brad b/c Brad covers one of Bonzi's weaknesses (shooting) and Bonzi covers some of Brad's (rebounding, toughness). So ideally, I'd like to get two big men, a C and a PF, and a PG. I wouldn't mind seeing our PF start like Adrian Griffin does for the Mavs. Someone who is a good defender and only plays about 20 minutes a night while allowing SAR to get close to 30.

[Gary]

I was mostly thinking of it as dumping KTs contract as with Brads.

[Kings113]

Ya I like the idea, although it wouldn't work for the reasons mentioned above. If we keep Bonzi, I don't think we should get rid of Brad b/c Brad covers one of Bonzi's weaknesses (shooting) and Bonzi covers some of Brad's (rebounding, toughness). So ideally, I'd like to get two big men, a C and a PF, and a PG. I wouldn't mind seeing our PF start like Adrian Griffin does for the Mavs. Someone who is a good defender and only plays about 20 minutes a night while allowing SAR to get close to 30.

So, that would be an Etan Thomas/Francisco Elson/Eddie Griffin/Melvin Ely you're suggesting. All are effective without the ball, can defend, rebound, block shots (some more than others), have athleticism, and have some offense in their games.

;)

[walker60]

So, that would be an Etan Thomas/Francisco Elson/Eddie Griffin/Melvin Ely you're suggesting. All are effective without the ball, can defend, rebound, block shots (some more than others), have athleticism, and have some offense in their games.

;)

Ya, so basically pick up two of those guys and start one at PF and play him 20/min a night. Then pick up another one and have him back up Brad. Then we can have one offensive big man and one defensive big in the game at all times. Play Brad and SAR together when we need some points or they aren't clearly outmanned....

[Kings113]

That's how I feel, and hopefully can happen. Petrie did say he wants to get a guy who can block shots and play d at least. I'd like to see it lead to two.

[LPKingsFan]

I was mostly thinking of it as dumping KTs contract as with Brads.


Fair enough. But I just don't think Brad's play, as bas as it's been lately, merits a wholesale "dump."

And I agree with a lot of 113's said here.

While my ideal big man rotation is:
C: Miller/Chandler
PF: SAR/Chandler

I could settle with as a decent enough consolation:
C:Miller/Mohammed
PF:E. Thomas/SAR

[Kings113]

Don't know if we could get Mohammed to be our back-up, but with our situation, who knows. That'd be absolutely great.

I assume he's out for a starting job though...

[SacTownKid]

2) The flip side of this is that its not always about who is the better player, its about needs. Udonis Haslem isn't a great player, but he plays his role well and is now on a Finals team. Ditto Sagana Diop, James Posey, Adrian Griffin, etc. And if Kenny can't fill our needs, then moving him for a guy who patches our weaknesses makes sense, no matter who is the "better" player. Kenny actually is kind of a problematic player in that he is not a high quality all around starter type, but has neither the game nor mentality of a roleplaying bencher. You might be better off with a quality roleplayer who knows his role and relishes it. Of course at that point you've also just traded Chris Webber for Etan Thomas, but that's water under the bridge stuff at this point. Fact is that next year I could make a very persuasive argument why we could get more use out of a roleplaying 6'9" musclular shotblocking combo PF/C than a 6'7" "better" all around pure minature PF who needs lots of minutes to be happy and productive.

3) not really interested in sacrificing a guy capable of dominating the Spurs for spare parts from a mediocre club. Haywood and Daniels have some value, but on a team hoping to contend, its as fill up the rotation guys. Moving KT would be nice, but I don't want to downgrade our talent to do so.

4+5) yep, similar questions about both. Neither is the answer by themselves. I have real doubts this is how Geoff thinks, but nonetheless its why I would liek to see us go get TWO shotblocking types next year. And if one is Griffin or Swift, cool. Youth + potential to help and energize. But I don't think you could take either guy alone as your only move and decide that they were definitely going to come through for you.

Take the first statement and apply it to the second one, and you get your answer as to why it's irrelevant anyway.

[Bricklayer]

Take the first statement and apply it to the second one, and you get your answer as to why it's irrelevant anyway.


Yes indeedy. No doubt at all that's what we did -- patched a whole bunch of needs with the utter garbage we got for Webber. And after all all he was doing was leading a team on pace to win about 54-55 games at the time, until we started dismantiling it. And man were we OH so much better off for the next year without him. I mean man, there were brief moments when we ALMOST reached .500. :rolleyes:


My hairy ***. A colossal ****up that would have given us a nice convenient date to pin as the end of the era of Sacto as anything but NBA cowtown had not one Ronald Artest decided to go nutso on his former team.


As a complete aside, but the obvious point -- Kenny Thomas is a completely irrelevant basketball player. You have Kenny Thomas, you don't have Kenny Thomas, it means nothing to your bottom line. Eminently replaceable by almost any average PF. So you can conceivably trade him for a roleplayer and nothing is lost. You can NOT do that with guys that matter or...well, those of us who didn't know beforehand should have learned that lesson.

[nbrans]

Kenny Thomas is irrelevant. Webber is irrelevant. Let's find someone relevant.

[Čarolija]

I have seen a number of people mentioning Booth in the trades. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Bucks get rid off Booth through that clause where they cut him so they don't have to play luxury tax. The same clause Mavs used on Finley and Orlando used on Christie. I am pretty sure Booth is no longer on their roster. He is a FA.

How about

Jason Hart, Kenny Thomas and a future 2nd rounder to Bucks
Gadzuric and Mo Williams to Kings.

Jason Hart has 1 year left on his deal and he would be a decent 3rd PG for the Bucks and they get to KT to play next to Bogut and provide them with a bit of athleticism in the frount court.

[SacTownKid]

Yes indeedy. No doubt at all that's what we did -- patched a whole bunch of needs with the utter garbage we got for Webber. And after all all he was doing was leading a team on pace to win about 54-55 games at the time, until we started dismantiling it. And man were we OH so much better off for the next year without him. I mean man, there were brief moments when we ALMOST reached .500. :rolleyes:


My hairy ***. A colossal ****up that would have given us a nice convenient date to pin as the end of the era of Sacto as anything but NBA cowtown had not one Ronald Artest decided to go nutso on his former team.


As a complete aside, but the obvious point -- Kenny Thomas is a completely irrelevant basketball player. You have Kenny Thomas, you don't have Kenny Thomas, it means nothing to your bottom line. Eminently replaceable by almost any average PF. So you can conceivably trade him for a roleplayer and nothing is lost. You can NOT do that with guys that matter or...well, those of us who didn't know beforehand should have learned that lesson.

You have a hairy ***.

[Kings113]

I like it.

Bibby/Mo Williams
Bonzi/Martin
Artest/Garcia
Defensive PF/SAR
Brad/Gadz

That bench is sick. PF options..

1 trade Garcia/#19/another piece (don't know if that could get us anything)
2 sign an Elson/Ely/Wright..
3 draft a PF and start him or SAR.
4 signing Tim Thomas, and trading Brad for a defensive center.
5 signing TT, and keeping Brad.

I like 2 or 4 myself.

......Bibby/Bonzi/Ron/TT/Ben Wallace ;)