Trade Brad Miller

[Rome]

I agree with the posters above. Trade Brad/KT for Camby and then let Reef run the 4 position. He can shoot/post up and pass very effectively unlike brad who just relies heavily on his jumpshot. Reef can also play decent defense.

If Reef had a center like Camby who can help him rebound and block shots he would be averaging nearly 20-25 ppg. He's proven it b4.

[SacTownKid]

I would definately consider that trade. But we wouldn't have to include Kenny. Brad and Camby make about the same amount of money.


Another guy I have mentioned before is Etan Thomas. He would be perfect for that 4/5 guy that can play both positions, will rebound and protect the rim. Kenny Thomas for Etan Thomas is just to realistic to ever happen though.

[BMiller52]

Good post, I agree trade Miller and KT for a good Center. How about Marcus Camby? I loved how he played today again the Clippers. I heard he is the leader in blocked shots and makes rebounding look easy. He's a bit thin, but I think that plays to his advantage being as how he is so athletic. How about Camby for Miller and KT? I don't know the salary and I hope we can get another player from the Nuggets, Eduaro would be nice. That Mexican can play, no pun intended, I'm a big fan of his. :D



To make a trade the other team has to agree to the trade too. ;-_-

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I would definately consider that trade. But we wouldn't have to include Kenny. Brad and Camby make about the same amount of money.


Another guy I have mentioned before is Etan Thomas. He would be perfect for that 4/5 guy that can play both positions, will rebound and protect the rim. Kenny Thomas for Etan Thomas is just to realistic to ever happen though.If Washington could be talked into that, we ought to try to get Jarvis Hayes, too: K. Thomas/Hart for E. Thomas/Hayes sounds about right.

Then (since KG fantasies are the "word of the day" at KF), we could S&T Wells, Miller and Potapenko for Garnett, and have Hayes as an insurance policy for Martin.

Leaving the following lineup:

G - Bibby
G - Martin
F - Artest
F - Garnett
C - E. Thomas

Of course, we'd still have a few Bench issues to work out:

F/C - Abdur-Rahim
G/F - Garcia
G - Hayes
F - Williamson
G - Price

[Rome]

Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Brad Miller
7-0 C from Purdue
15.0 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.7 apg in 37.0 minutes

Kenny Thomas
6-7 PF from New Mexico
9.1 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 28.0 minutes
Incoming

Marcus Camby
6-11 C from Massachusetts
12.8 ppg, 11.9 rpg, 2.0 apg in 33.1 minutes

Eduardo Najera
6-8 SF from Oklahoma
5.4 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 22.7 minutes
Change in team outlook: -5.9 ppg, +1.7 rpg, and -3.9 apg.

Denver Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Marcus Camby
6-11 C from Massachusetts
12.8 ppg, 11.9 rpg, 2.0 apg in 33.1 minutes

Eduardo Najera
6-8 SF from Oklahoma
5.4 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 22.7 minutes
Incoming

Brad Miller
7-0 C from Purdue
15.0 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.7 apg in 37.0 minutes

Kenny Thomas
6-7 PF from New Mexico
9.1 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 28.0 minutes
Change in team outlook: +5.9 ppg, -1.7 rpg, and +3.9 apg.


Successful Scenario
Due to Sacramento and Denver being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Sacramento and Denver had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

New Lineup:

Camby/MLE
Reef/Eduardo Najera
Artest/Garcia
Bonzi/Martin
Bibby/Hart

Why Denver does this trade:

Denver is really looking for some outside shooting and Brad Miller could be that guy for them. They are one of the worst shooting teams and they need somone who can "spread the floor".

Why Sacramento does this trade:
Allows Reef to play his starting role as a scorer and Camby gives us a interior toughness/major shot blocking/rebounding. Only reason i want KT out is because he won't come off the bench. Eduardo Najera will be that energy guy off the bench and he does all the little things that make a huge impact in the game.

[BMiller52]

Camby is a good mid range shooter. The nuggets don't need anybody who can hit the midrange shot, KMart, Camby, Miller, Mello all can hit that. They need 3 point shooters to spread the floor so their post players and slashers have more room to operate.

[Rome]

Camby is a good mid range shooter. The nuggets don't need anybody who can hit the midrange shot, KMart, Camby, Miller, Mello all can hit that. They need 3 point shooters to spread the floor so their post players and slashers have more room to operate.
yea i was thinking about that too. well im going for Mr. S£im Citrus (http://www.78y.net/nph-info.cgi/000000A/http/www.kingsfans.com/forums/member.php=3d3fu=3d3d33) trade idea.

[SacTownKid]

Well the one thing that makes Brad so valuable is his passing ability. He is the best passing big man in the game right now. So you could always use that as a selling point.

[Rome]

I hope Brad requests a trade to be sent to Indianna this summer but we secretly decide to send him to Minni for KG lol. :D

[Troy]

I hope Brad requests a trade to be sent to Indianna this summer but we secretly decide to send him to Minni for KG lol. :D

I don't care where he goes (Brad), just get him out of here if he doesn't show up. I would love a Marcus Camby/Francisco Elson trade for Miller, KT, Corliss or something. Elson doesn't make a lot of $ and he and Camby are PF/C types being as athletic as they are for there size. Do you think we can get Denver to go along with this? I like KT, but he has proven that he cannot come off the bench and is a big cry baby, and is very undersized for the PF he plays, his shot also scares me with his hop and straight arm approach....he has a similar shot at the free throw line, without the big jump, just relying on his straight arm. :D

Seeing SAR being the monster he is the last games against the Spurs convinced me that he should start for us and deserves it? We do need to spread the floor more, but this should be done with anyone other than out PF or Center, not a 7' ft Center how it is now, we just don't need that, also we cannot have 2 huge defensive liabilities on the floor in our starting lineup....Bibby is enough and makes up for it better than Miller who is the 2nd wave that should be supporting Bibby and guard the hoop. We have to just have Bibby do his thing and pass and shot and try to play the best defense he can and have a play close to the hoop Center and/or PF.

[Rome]

I don't care where he goes (Brad), just get him out of here if he doesn't show up. I would love a Marcus Camby/Francisco Elson trade for Miller, KT, Corliss or something. Elson doesn't make a lot of $ and he and Camby are PF/C types being as athletic as they are for there size. Do you think we can get Denver to go along with this? I like KT, but he has proven that he cannot come off the bench and is a big cry baby, and is very undersized for the PF he plays, his shot also scares me with his hop and straight arm approach....he has a similar shot at the free throw line, without the big jump, just relying on his straight arm. :D

Seeing SAR being the monster he is the last games against the Spurs convinced me that he should start for us and deserves it? We do need to spread the floor more, but this should be done with anyone other than out PF or Center, not a 7' ft Center how it is now, we just don't need that, also we cannot have 2 huge defensive liabilities on the floor in our starting lineup....Bibby is enough and makes up for it better than Miller who is the 2nd wave that should be supporting Bibby and guard the hoop. We have to just have Bibby do his thing and pass and shot and try to play the best defense he can and have a play close to the hoop Center and/or PF.

Yea i totally agree.

Miller drives me nuts watching PGs and centers run and score all over him. And his offense sucks too once someone decides to guard him.

He can't contribute in any way once you take away his mid range shot.

[nbrans]

One trade possibility, depending on who's available and draft position, would be to trade Brad Miller to the Bulls or Raptors straight up for their lottery pick and draft Joakim Noah (if he comes out), Tyrus Thomas, Bargnani or LaMarcus Aldridge. The Bulls and Raptors need centers, and they already have plenty of young players. They will be under the cap, and can absorb Brad's salary without sending players in return.

It would be a pretty big risk, and I still think Brad is a good outside threat that compliments Artest, but he is getting up in age and his ever-increasing softness is worrysome. But shedding Brad's salary could potentially set the Kings up to be big players in the 2007 offseason, when all the Dirk, Paul Pierce, Rashard, etc. will be free agents.

[Troy]

One trade possibility, depending on who's available and draft position, would be to trade Brad Miller to the Bulls or Raptors straight up for their lottery pick and draft Joakim Noah (if he comes out), Tyrus Thomas, Bargnani or LaMarcus Aldridge. The Bulls and Raptors need centers, and they already have plenty of young players. They will be under the cap, and can absorb Brad's salary without sending players in return.

It would be a pretty big risk, and I still think Brad is a good outside threat that compliments Artest, but he is getting up in age and his ever-increasing softness is worrysome. But shedding Brad's salary could potentially set the Kings up to be big players in the 2007 offseason, when all the Dirk, Paul Pierce, Rashard, etc. will be free agents.

As you know it's very risky trading a known player and a good shooter and decent passer like Brad for a unknown college kid with lots of potential. I'm willing to do it though seeing what I'm seeing from Brad. The list of free agents next year is very very tempting, imagine the team we'd be with Dirk added to Artest, Bonzi, Bibby, and Camby, or Prizbilla at C. Dirk is unstoppable and we'd be like Brad who if we got him, we could also get the monster C we want like Prizbilla, or whoever who is a defense 1st kind of guy because we'd be getting plenty of offense production from Dirk. I'd love to see SAR off the bench behind Dirk as well as our 6th man. Now we're talking, we have the Maloofs as our owners, they can go over the cap and not hurt too much. I don't think we need to be like the Knicks, or Yankees with buying talent at all costs, but we can make some excepts with the Dirk's, KG's, Nash's of the NBA. They are superstars and worth the cost because of everything they bring to the game.

On second though, Dirk would be great, but how about KG at center
Bibby, Bonzi, Artest, Dirk, KG
I mean come on, if the Lakers can have their fantasy lineup like they had with Shaq and Kobe, why cannot we? We have some rich owners who love to see the Kings win, you need to spend $ to make $ so why not open the check book a little, right? :-)
I know I need to stop dreaming, ok then just KG and I'm happy, make it happen Maloofs :-)

[SacKings4Life21]

Dirk is never leaving Dallas...

[SacKings4Life21]

I am excited about Camby for Miller... wow that would be awesome. Evertyhing we need. And I i bet Denver would do it. But Camby is old, 32. And He always gets hurt. so is it worth the risk?

[Troy]

Dirk is never leaving Dallas...

I know, but didn't you think the same thing about Nash??? I know he is their franchise player and for good reason. We would also be competing with Cuban who isn't afraid to spend $ and match our offer if we did want to go after Dirk in free agency. Well at least let's try to get KG with Brad, KT, Corliss and some cold hard cash.

[nbrans]

Yeah, it's a major risk, and it can backfire horribly (Brand for Chandler) or it can be a stroke of genius (Divac for Kobe). I like what Miller brings on offense, and would rather see a defensive player added that hides some of Brad's weaknesses. But if Petrie has decided Miller isn't the future, it's a gamble that could pay off.

[Troy]

Yeah, it's a major risk, and it can backfire horribly (Brand for Chandler) or it can be a stroke of genius (Divac for Kobe). I like what Miller brings on offense, and would rather see a defensive player added that hides some of Brad's weaknesses. But if Petrie has decided Miller isn't the future, it's a gamble that could pay off.

True true, but wouldn't you rather see Brad, KT, Corliss traded for a known comodity in this league that has proven himself? It is a huge gamble to trade a top center as Brad is listed in the NBA for a top draft pick. This is a weak draft after all this year. I don't know the college scene, but we aren't talking about a Lebron, Carmelo, Wade kind of college guy are we???? I know that nothing is a sure thing and many top drafted guys are complete duds, so this scares me alot to trade a know guy like Brad on some pick. I much rather package him up with the other pieces we want to get rid of and hopefully someone wants and get some players for them or 1 allstar if possible.

NBrans, I know you know your stuff as VF21, Bricklayer and other senior members here, so what do you think of the Miller, KT, Corliss for Camby, Elson, Edwardo trade will it fly and make us a lot better? I think so.

On a side note, I don't know what the Bulls were thinking to trade away Brand and Artest. Those 2 guys together would be pretty scary considering they are both very stout and beat people up with their strength. I would love to see that on the Kings, but I'm pretty happy with how Bonzi and Artest create mismatches currently.

[SacKings4Life21]

WEll If Brad has strenght then, he doesnt now. But yes I would love Miller KT and corlis for camby najera and elson. THat would be brilliant

[Troy]

WEll If Brad has strenght then, he doesnt now. But yes I would love Miller KT and corlis for camby najera and elson. THat would be brilliant

That would be awesome, but not as good as for KG. The Denver trade is a good option B and I like the multiple needs it would fill although not making the big splash obviously of landing a stud like KG. Come on, money talks and we have it in our rich owners, why cannot we do it with sending Minn 3 of our guys and cash for 1 of their's??? I think it's very fair, if not a better deal for them. :D


Right now I think our only untouchables are in that order:

Bibby/Artest
Bonzi
SAR

SAR is hard to say, the guy showed me a lot in the 2nd Spurs game and carried us and I love his off the bench production, but if we are talking getting a KG, Brand, Dirk, then sorry SAR pack those bags bud.

Somewhat untouchable, but there for a good deal getting a little more than we give, in that order:

Miller
SAR
Kmart
Cisco

[SacKings4Life21]

Artest should be our only untochable. And Sure i would love to get KG. I had a dream about him last night, playing in purple. It was the best dream ever. but i dont think he is going to leave mini. Mchale wants him to stay desperatly. But yes I would be so happy if we got him!

[beemerr23]

There's no way we're getting KG or Dirk, you can forget about that. If you trade Bibby, I can guaruntee you won't get a 20+ point, 5+ assists, clutch in crunch time point guard in return.

[Troy]

Kings fans, want a big guy that can shoot the long ball and rebound and bash like the best of them and be cheap around $3M, and plays good at Arco. I know you guys aren't going to like this, but his name is Robert Horry. :D

Why not bring him into the fold and stop him from hurting us??? I know he is 36, but he looks like he's still can play some more years. I think he would be a good punch off the bench like he is in SA and the Brad Miller big trade would be a lot easier to swallow. Just a thought, I know we love him so much and maybe we could cheer for him, although he did break our hearts when he was with the Lakers and looks to do it again this year with the Spurs. He sure can shoot for a big guy and bash inside if needed.

[Troy]

There's no way we're getting KG or Dirk, you can forget about that. If you trade Bibby, I can guaruntee you won't get a 20+ point, 5+ assists, clutch in crunch time point guard in return.

I know, Bibby sucks on defense, but this guy is awesome. I really hope him and Brad step up the plate now that we need them more then ever against the Spurs. That's why I think he, Ron, and Bonzi, and SAR are the untouchables, Brad as well unless we can get Camby or Chandler for him. You don't throw a guy like Brad away, unless you can upgrade. Before shipping him off, I'd like to see a guy like Prizbilla or another guy at Center next to Brad or at least a PF that plays very big. Either way we need a big guy next to Brad that covers for Brad's bad D and rebounding/shot blocking, call him a PF or C, I don't care we just need that guy and bad.

[Kings113]

No on Horry, and he's in it with teams very likely to win a championship.

[yanon]

Actually trading Brad for a top 3 pick wouldn't be bad because there are two very good PF/C players in this year's draft.

Those two have allstar potentials and very good size.

[Larry89]

Kings fans, want a big guy that can shoot the long ball and rebound and bash like the best of them and be cheap around $3M, and plays good at Arco. I know you guys aren't going to like this, but his name is Robert Horry. :D

Why not bring him into the fold and stop him from hurting us??? I know he is 36, but he looks like he's still can play some more years. I think he would be a good punch off the bench like he is in SA and the Brad Miller big trade would be a lot easier to swallow. Just a thought, I know we love him so much and maybe we could cheer for him, although he did break our hearts when he was with the Lakers and looks to do it again this year with the Spurs. He sure can shoot for a big guy and bash inside if needed.

NEVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRr

[SacKings4Life21]

You know... I dont liek to get involed in the girlish "ohh i hate him becase he made that basket, or oooo i love him becase he is so cute and been on our team for so long! yay!" Im not like that usually... but with Horry... i am. I respect his game, but could never stand him in a kings uniform... others say the same about Shaq, and Kobe... im not that guy... If the DADDY wanted to come here, i would be super happy.. same with Kobe... but not horry

[Troy]

You know... I dont liek to get involed in the girlish "ohh i hate him becase he made that basket, or oooo i love him becase he is so cute and been on our team for so long! yay!" Im not like that usually... but with Horry... i am. I respect his game, but could never stand him in a kings uniform... others say the same about Shaq, and Kobe... im not that guy... If the DADDY wanted to come here, i would be super happy.. same with Kobe... but not horry

You rather Kobe the rapest comes here than Horry? I know Horry raped the Kings and broke our hearts, but the guy is good. I'm not a Horry bandwagon kind of guy, but I think the guy has some shooting skills for being his size and we could probably get him for cheap, that is if decides to come here and the Spurs let him go. He said he loves playing at Arco. Let's turn those boos to cheers :D

[Bricklayer]

You rather Kobe the rapest comes here than Horry? I know Horry raped the Kings and broke our hearts, but the guy is good. I'm not a Horry bandwagon kind of guy, but I think the guy has some shooting skills for being his size and we could probably get him for cheap, that is if decides to come here and the Spurs let him go. He said he loves playing at Arco. Let's turn those boos to cheers :D

let's not bring the Kobe off court stuff into this ok?

He was acquitted (or rather the case was dropped). There is an ugly dark cloud hanging there, but no way to prove anything either way, so all that does is introduce an ugly debate for no reason.

[BMiller52]

SAY NO TO HORRY!


Dude wouldn't even help us that much. The kings need a shotblocker/post defender with athleticism not a guy who rides the coattails of kobe+shaq/duncan etc. I mean he's clutch, but he's not what the kings need.

[West_Gunslinger16]

Chandler? Is that possible? I traded Brad and Potapenko in Live 06 and Chicago said YES!:D

[beemerr23]

Chandler? Is that possible? I traded Brad and Potapenko in Live 06 and Chicago said YES!:D haha! well, game simulations are normally right, hopefully the same applies for trades!!! :p

[Troy]

Why cannot Brad Miller be more like Pau Gasol???

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/pau_gasol/index.html

Pau is a 20/10 guy for Memphis, I know you cannot compare a person of the same weight and height because a lot of times it's comparing apples to oranges, but why cannot he be that guy a little? I know Brad has played good for us, not in this critical playoff series, but he has been 1 of our main guys....I just wonder if he has a 20/10 potential in him, I think the point thing, but not the rebounding part.

I know his athletism sucks and I had to keep going back and seeing his trot to the hoop last night. He looks kind of like a horse with his trot the the hoop, doesn't look very natural, but it works and he hits his shots from the free throw line. If anything, Brad is a good shooter, although this entire Spurs series his trademark 18 footer is not falling.

[VF21]

Why can't Brad Miller be more like Pau Gasol?

Gee, why can't a rutabaga be more like a boomerang...

Brad Miller is Brad Miller. Players have strengths and weaknesses, warts and wrinkles. The idea in real life isn't to try and assemble a team of perfect players. It's to assemble a group of players whose strengths and weaknesses offset and complement each other's to form the BEST possible team.

Chandler? Is that possible? I traded Brad and Potapenko in Live 06 and Chicago said YES!

The idea that Chicago would trade Chandler for Miller and Vitaly might work on Live06, but there's a problem with that. IT'S A ViDEO GAME!!

[nbrans]

If the Kings were to trade Brad to Chicago I'd want more than just Chandler. Brad is a top 5 center, however poorly he's been playing. Chandler is good, but he's not there yet.

[Kings113]

Chandler and Duhon or maybe Gordon then. Since I doubt they'd give up Hinrich/likely BG, and Duhon is a good young PG.

[Troy]

Why can't Brad Miller be more like Pau Gasol?

Gee, why can't a rutabaga be more like a boomerang...

Brad Miller is Brad Miller. Players have strengths and weaknesses, warts and wrinkles. The idea in real life isn't to try and assemble a team of perfect players. It's to assemble a group of players whose strengths and weaknesses offset and complement each other's to form the BEST possible team.



The idea that Chicago would trade Chandler for Miller and Vitaly might work on Live06, but there's a problem with that. IT'S A ViDEO GAME!!

You're right VF, I always hated that "Why cannot you be more like so and so???" :D
I'm just saying that Brad does have the shooting ability but we need the rebounding and since he plays away from the basket we need to rely on our PG (Power Guard as in Bonzi, not Point Guard as in Bibby) and 6' 7" PF (K9) to get our rebounds which is seriously flawed. If Brad was a PF, then that might be o.k., but because he is our Center we should be getting more rebounding and shot blocking out of him.

Chandler and Duhon or maybe Gordon then. Since I doubt they'd give up Hinrich/likely BG, and Duhon is a good young PG.

Now your talking. Chandler and Duhon for Brad would be awesome, let's do it!!! We could add Vitaly or Hart or someone else other than Bonzi, Bibby, Artest, KMart, Cisco, SAR etc. if needed. I like Nocioni as well on the Bulls, is he even remotely available? Duon is a very good athletic guy that would help us and him and Chandler for Brad is more than fair. Ben Gordon would be so awesome off the bench for us, let's keep the possibilities coming. With losing Chandler, the Bulls will want some big guy(s) so how about Brad, Vitaly, and Sampson for Chandler, Duon, and Gordon? I really doubt they'd go for that, but we have other pieces like Corliss, and KT that we could use if needed.

[VF21]

And why would Chicago do it? If Chandler is that good, why would they want to get rid of him? And if he's not, why would we get rid of Brad for him?

Is Brad that good? If yes, we don't want to trade down. If no, they don't want to inherit his contact.

[Kings113]

Bulls wanted to get Hart last summer, but we swooped in and got him. Also, Bulls papers and announcers talked about a few times wishing to get Brad back. So, could work. ;)

[Troy]

And why would Chicago do it? If Chandler is that good, why would they want to get rid of him? And if he's not, why would we get rid of Brad for him?

Is Brad that good? If yes, we don't want to trade down. If no, they don't want to inherit his contact.

The Bulls probably also have a lot of pride in Chandler considering they gave up Elton Brand for him so they might be sticking with him good or bad to justify it and hope he becomes the player they thought he was prior to the trade. I like Chandler, but there are so many other players on the bench on other teams that could help us out a lot like Francisco Elson on Denver or Anderson Vajero on Cleveland, plus lots of other guys. The Kings are such a small team compared to other teams that have 4-5 7 footers or near 7 footers. We have Vitaly and Jamal that are rotting away.

Bulls wanted to get Hart last summer, but we swooped in and got him. Also, Bulls papers and announcers talked about a few times wishing to get Brad back. So, could work.

Brad, Corliss, and Hart for Chandler, Duon, and Gordon

[BMiller52]

Brad, Corliss, and Hart for Chandler, Duon, and Gordon


Chicago would hang up and laugh.

[Troy]

Chicago would hang up and laugh.

I know. We are getting close I think with the group we have and have done a heck of a lot for the limited rotation we use. Do you think a Brad, KT, Hart, and Corliss trio would yield us Chandler, Duon, and Gordon???

Also in all this talk of untouchables, I don't see Sampson and Monia listed. I know they are both inactive on the roster and young and largely untested, but do you think they have futures on the Kings? I know it is too early to probably tell, I just hate how RA let Skinner sit on the bench when we really could have used him. The same is true for Corliss now, he does alot of the same thinks Bonzi does on offense with his bashing, but isn't the defender Bonzi is, but he sits and is a high priced cheeleader on the bench.

Why can't Brad Miller be more like Pau Gasol?

Gee, why can't a rutabaga be more like a boomerang...

Brad Miller is Brad Miller. Players have strengths and weaknesses, warts and wrinkles. The idea in real life isn't to try and assemble a team of perfect players. It's to assemble a group of players whose strengths and weaknesses offset and complement each other's to form the BEST possible team.



The idea that Chicago would trade Chandler for Miller and Vitaly might work on Live06, but there's a problem with that. IT'S A ViDEO GAME!!

I know Brad is Brad, but I know he has it in him, or did. A lot of the frustration with Brad these days, especially now in the playoffs is he is taking on the Pejaness of not showing up and almost deliberatly messing up. I don't know. He is not doing his career favors by doing this, but a lot of the frustration Kings fans have with Brad is his lack of effort, and it hurts because we know he is capable of a lot more. We pay his check and his is on our team and he will have to wait to get back to Indiana.

[Kings113]

I think it's too early on Sampson/Monia. I think they should be kept, they can help, but also are high possibilities to be used in trade(s).

[VF21]

I know. We are getting close I think with the group we have and have done a heck of a lot for the limited rotation we use. Do you think a Brad, KT, Hart, and Corliss trio would yield us Chandler, Duon, and Gordon???

Also in all this talk of untouchables, I don't see Sampson and Monia listed. I know they are both inactive on the roster and young and largely untested, but do you think they have futures on the Kings? I know it is too early to probably tell, I just hate how RA let Skinner sit on the bench when we really could have used him. The same is true for Corliss now, he does alot of the same thinks Bonzi does on offense with his bashing, but isn't the defender Bonzi is, but he sits and is a high priced cheeleader on the bench.



I know Brad is Brad, but I know he has it in him, or did. A lot of the frustration with Brad these days, especially now in the playoffs is he is taking on the Pejaness of not showing up and almost deliberatly messing up. I don't know. He is not doing his career favors by doing this, but a lot of the frustration Kings fans have with Brad is his lack of effort, and it hurts because we know he is capable of a lot more. We pay his check and his is on our team and he will have to wait to get back to Indiana.

This whole thing about Brad wanting to get back to Indiana has been blown up out of all proportion with reality. What Brad said was that if he had the opportunity he might like to end his career in Indiana. That's ALL he said.

I repeat - a true general manager builds a team with strengths and weaknesses. He balances their talent and stays within a monetary limit. He melds personalities and tries to find players who will fit the team he envisions.

Your comment about Brad "almost deliberately messing up" is totally uncalled for and UNREALISTIC.

[beemerr23]

If the Kings were to trade Brad to Chicago I'd want more than just Chandler. Brad is a top 5 center, however poorly he's been playing. Chandler is good, but he's not there yet. Shaq, Yao, Okur, Ilglauskus, BWallace, Camby, Kaman, Stoudemire, Dalembert... :confused:

[Kings113]

Dalembert had an inconsistent year, but had a couple injuries, and probably pressure from that contract. I liked him a lot last season though.

Could put Magloire/Chandler in there too.

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Dalembert? Okay, I could see a case for some of those guys, but at the point at which you're saying that Dalembert is a better center than Miller, you're just revealing your own blind hatred; Dalembert can do exactly one thing better than Miller, which is block shots, and that does not remotely make him a better center. Okur and Miller are essentially the same player. In fact, Miller is actually a better shooter than Okur. Ilgauskas is also remarkably similar to Miller, except that he blocks more shots. Kaman? One season of 12/9 ball suddenly makes him better than Miller? I'm not sold. I refuse to rate Stoudemire at center until he plays more than one season at center (one season at PF and one at C does not equate to C to me... especially not when Phoenix acquired Kurt Thomas to play center, so that Stoudemire and Marion could both go back to their natural positions).

Given that, I'd say that O'Neal, Yao, Wallace and Camby are closer to reality, in terms of centers that are better than Miller. The rest of those guys (Stoudemire gets a mulligan) fall into the "less than or equal to" category.

[SacTownKid]

And why would Chicago do it? If Chandler is that good, why would they want to get rid of him? And if he's not, why would we get rid of Brad for him?

Is Brad that good? If yes, we don't want to trade down. If no, they don't want to inherit his contact.

Simple, Chandler isn't that good. And they would probably, no, I would say, MOST LIKELY trade us Tyson for Brad.

[Kings113]

Chandler has been earning that contract from late January-present. Finally got over the health problems he had before that.

I'd trade Brad for him, yup.

[SacTownKid]

Don't think I would trade him straight up for Brad. We are all really blasting Brad for having a horrible series, but Chandler can be one of the most inconsistent players I have ever seen, mainly because he is so foul prone. I would love to have him side by side with a guy like Brad, but not a frontline of Kenny Thomas and Tyson Chandler.

I really do like Tyson though. I have watched him since he has come in the league, and one thing I don't get is that he hasn't really improved much as a basketball player. He still has ZERO offensive game, we can't rely on Mike Bibby to spread the floor by himself. Tyson will get you 9 rebounds, 5 points, and 1.5 blocks a game. Not for Brad.

[Kings113]

I didn't mean just for Brad, but involving Duhon as well.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?statsId=3512 - 1/21 to April was quite a good period.

[beemerr23]

Dalembert? Okay, I could see a case for some of those guys, but at the point at which you're saying that Dalembert is a better center than Miller, you're just revealing your own blind hatred; Dalembert can do exactly one thing better than Miller, which is block shots, and that does not remotely make him a better center. Okur and Miller are essentially the same player. In fact, Miller is actually a better shooter than Okur. Ilgauskas is also remarkably similar to Miller, except that he blocks more shots. Kaman? One season of 12/9 ball suddenly makes him better than Miller? I'm not sold. I refuse to rate Stoudemire at center until he plays more than one season at center (one season at PF and one at C does not equate to C to me... especially not when Phoenix acquired Kurt Thomas to play center, so that Stoudemire and Marion could both go back to their natural positions).

Given that, I'd say that O'Neal, Yao, Wallace and Camby are closer to reality, in terms of centers that are better than Miller. The rest of those guys (Stoudemire gets a mulligan) fall into the "less than or equal to" category. Dalembert plays better defense than Miller, and rebounds better on top of blocking shots. Okur and Miller are similar in the fact that they can hit from behind the arc, but Okur can rebound better. Iglauskus has a post game and can block shots, Miller doesn't. Kaman has been a monster this season, him and Brand dominate the boards for the Clippers. If Kaman didn't have a dominant rebounding PF like Brand with him, he'd be pulling down 13 rebounds a game. He's also had numerous games this season where he's pulled down 20+ boards. Stoudemire is indubitably a C and has more than proven himself in this league as a dominant C.

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Dalembert plays better defense than Miller, and rebounds better on top of blocking shots.Dalembert is not a better defender; he doesn't deny position any better than Miller does, doesn't box out, and can't cover the perimeter. He's a better shot-blocker, and that's all he's proven to be. Shot blocker =/= defender, in and of itself.

... Okur and Miller are similar in the fact that they can hit from behind the arc, but Okur can rebound better.Career numbers don't bear this out.

... Iglauskus has a post game and can block shots, Miller doesn't.But he doesn't defend well overall, he can't stay in front of his man any better than Miller can, and he's a poor rebounder as well. Offensively, their strengths cancel each other out.

Kaman has been a monster this season, him and Brand dominate the boards for the Clippers. If Kaman didn't have a dominant rebounding PF like Brand with him, he'd be pulling down 13 rebounds a game. He's also had numerous games this season where he's pulled down 20+ boards.One season doesn't make him a better center. I'll be willing to retract that statement when he does it again, but not until then.

Stoudemire is indubitably a C and has more than proven himself in this league as a dominant C.Then why were the Suns going to (and still will, if Thomas is healthy next season) move him back to PF?

[SacKings4Life21]

Sam Dam is a great defender.... I have seen him own. but foul prone

[Kings113]

Not a good man-defender yet though. Shot-blocker and rebounder? Yup.

[Rome]

I just hope we get rid of Brad soon. His years are looking like their comming to an end. He's too slow, he can't rebound, play defense and his scoring should be higher for a franchise that lost one if it's best players.

[HndsmCelt]

The team starts with the coach and the STYLE of play the coach favors. To start speculation threads about trading or signing particular players when the coach has to be named is questionable. If the Kings retain Rick and Pete Catrill then regardless of the line up the team will run at lest some variation of the Princeton offense. If they let Rick go and bring in say … Nelly, well then the offense will go fast and defense will be no consideration at all. And so on with any coach you can think of the teams needs will change and value of players will change. Bottom line this is not fantasy basketball where you can cut and paste players by stats and call it a win.

So Arguments about trading or signing players really depend on who you see at the helm. If you see Rick coming back it is worth looking at his season long assist and scoring numbers and then try to imagine your preferred center playing in the Princeton offenses. Then consider Brads trade value to other teams. Trust me I am not opposed to trading Brad in general, it’s just with so many if’s in the mix it really is hard to find a likely scenario. It seems much more likely that the Kings can move some other pieces and hopefully get a power forward that will complement Brad’s play with in the system. Of course if you are looking to see Rick go then the number of possible trades changes.

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Not a good man-defender yet though.... Which is pretty much exactly what I said. Dalembert is a great weak-side shot blocker, and is becoming a "pretty good" rebounder. But that does not, by itself, equate to "good defender," and that's all that Dalembert gives you.

[Kings113]

She/he obviously didn't get it then, when he/she posted.

[beemerr23]

I'm not going to keep pointing out that Miller can't rebound/defend/block shots because I feel like I'm repeating myself...and others are as well. I'll just leave it at this: Miller isn't our solution to solving the problems we have with this team.

[DoDiGaG0]

well we need a inside banger to match with our new team attidude

I think k9 is a great @ the 4 - even though hes undersized hes tough and doesnt back down(like ron and bonzi)

Brad is just too soft - we need someone who can handle the the paint - ATTEMPT to block shots - grab rebounds and ocassionaly score @ the post

[SacTownKid]

I'm not going to keep pointing out that Miller can't rebound/defend/block shots because I feel like I'm repeating myself...and others are as well. I'll just leave it at this: Miller isn't our solution to solving the problems we have with this team.

But move Miller, and you create a whole new world of problems. When he is on you see what happens. Tonight he was hitting, and we blew out the world champs. He also had 2 blocks. 2 rebounds I can deal with considering we were getting all the boards anyway.

[atxrocker]

^but see, thats the problem. Brad was hitting tonight and played a very solid game, almost looking back in form. His inconsistency is his weakness and this was his first strong game in the series. I loved seeing it. When he excels he is fun to watch. He hasn't made a habit of showing up at every game. If he did, he could be very effective.

[Kings113]

We need a PF to compliment Brad, since Brad isn't likely to go, IMO. KT's a good rebounder, has the quickness, but the size/lost jumper/no shot-blocking hurts. He's more ideal in the East or with a center like Amare (Marion, though should change next year)/Camby (K-Mart, either way)/Shaq (Haslem)/Yao (Howard).

Realistically, a guy like Griffin/Elson/maybe Nene would fit well next to Brad or getting good minutes off the bench (not for Nene). Depending on if Rick's back, and what he'd do if so. Griffin I'd expect to find his shot again, and Elson can hit from the outside well. Both good rebounders, shot-blockers, 6'10+, athletic. Neither need the ball to be effective, but do have some kind of offense. Both can play center if needed too, as shown a number of times this season. Either wouldn't be expensive (Griffin's contract is small).

[Larry89]

goddamit brad

[PFFFT!!]

Again he showed why in Game 5. Enough sed.

[Burrito06]

Just yesterday I was saying to myself, I think this might be Brad's last games with us. The thing is he spreads the floor. We already have 2 low post players in Ron and Bonzi. If we do in fact trade Brad for a low post center we begin to clog up that lane for Bonzi and Ron to work. Another problem is that Bibby can't be the only player that we have spreading the floor. We in fact may need Brad. IMO we need a clone of godzilla at PF that will hopefully compliment the type of player that Brad is.

[Mista 808]

all I can say is that I 100% agree with trading Miller. The guy has a good jump shot and good passing skills, but that's not what we need him for. We need a good inside defender and I at 6'0 can defend the paint better then Miller. Let him play for the Monarchs.

[Ryle]

all I can say is that I 100% agree with trading Miller. The guy has a good jump shot and good passing skills, but that's not what we need him for. We need a good inside defender and I at 6'0 can defend the paint better then Miller. Let him play for the Monarchs.

Yolanda could probably tear him a new one.

[Mista 808]

Yolanda could probably tear him a new one.

exactly what I was implying. There were a few plays down the stretch where Parker came right at Brad and rather than putting him at the line to earn his shots he just put his hand straight up without going for the ball whatsoever... that was really what set me off because that was inside the 3 minutes when we were just tied moments before.. YOU CANNOT LET PARKER look you in the eyes and think in his lil head "oh, it's only Brad Miller, he's just going to put his hands up and that's about it" you have to foul this guy in the clutch regardless of how many fouls you had, which at the time I don't think Miller was anywhere close in foul trouble... And if he were, GOOD GET HIM OUT OF THE GAME! And Brad was making Timmy D look better than Timmy D should've been looking.

[kingsfannPDX]

get rid of miller and thomas. not sure who would take either of those scrubs. brad has had a few good years. come playoff time his mind is on hunting. trade him to the blazers or some other team that doesn't care about winning.

[Kings113]

Potapenko should of got some minutes against Duncan, don't know about Sampson, but he would of got rebounds and blocks.

[uopmatt]

I know this has been said over and over but anyone ever heard of Jerome James. This guy averaged close to 20 points, 10 rebounds, and a couple blocks a game last year in the playoffs against Brad. Let me ask you this though. Had you ever heard of him before or since then. The guy was a stiff. Miller made him look like a young Walt Chamberlin.
Earlier this season Brad also hinted at the idea of ending his career in Indiana with the Pacers. Hell, I'd have to think conserably about trading him for Granger myself if that deal came on the table.
Regardless of whether or not he wants to be traded why the heck can't Miller foul Paker hard one time so that next time he decided to dribble down the lane he'd have to think twice about it. You can't realistically expect Bibby or Martin to stay in front of Parker 100% of the time but would any of you be afraid to take it to the hoop against Miller.
Lastly, why Does Brad seem to look so scared to always shoot the ball. If he was really the great outside shooter that everyone says he is then why does this happen so much. I can't stand it anymore. Think of all the great outside shooters in the league. Can you name one that is as scared to shoot the ball as much as Miller is.

[peja43]

Please trade Brad ASAP in the offseason. He has about as much heart as Peja.

[Rome]

So you guys finally realize how much of a liability Brad is on defense and then how easy it is for the opposing team to just "shut him down".

Welcome to the "Trade Brad" bandwagon. :)

[ForlornKing]

Trade Brad for who?

[yanon]

Trade Brad for Portland's draft pick and one of their scrubs.

[ForlornKing]

Trade Brad for Portland's draft pick and one of their scrubs.


Please.


Trade a 30 year old center with no defense for the 1st round draft pick?

[yanon]

Haha, Portland might just be crazy enough to propose a deal like the one I suggested.

There are two very good powerforward/center type of players in this draft.

[reyes13]

A point was brought up that Brad is just not a postseason type of player. Playoff basketball is intense and some players swim and others drown. After the past few postseasons watching him and Peja, I'm starting to think they just don't have it in them. Both are nice guys and good players. But if you want to win a championship, go with players that are "hungry." If we want go anywhere, (Peja for example) we might need to make another move while Brad's still tradeable. I hope he proves me wrong tomorrow. :o

[Kings113]

Wonder what Petrie thinks of this cat, has of course been watching the games. Little game through the whole series. One good scoring game, nothing else of note, or nothing at all.

[Rome]

Ok this was the last straw for Brad Miller. He does it once again in this series and in his whole playoff career. 10 ppg and 2 FREAKING REBOUNDS a game. Are you kidding me? My little 12 year old brother can step up on the court and collect more rebounds than this guy.

This guy just like Peja is a complete joke in the playoffs. Yet his supporters come up with excuses such as "he spreads the floor" or he shoots the lights out for a center. Excuse me but i havn't seen any of this in the playoffs.

If he's just gonna avg 15 ppg and 4 apg in the season and play like crap in the playoffs then whats the use of paying and having this overpaid center.

Just incase you don't remember this isn't the first playoff series he has choked. He did this in Seattle by letting Jerome James score 18 ppg and yet people keep refusing to accept the fact that he's just not a player that will help your team go deep in the playoffs....

[natedizzle]

Ok this was the last straw for Brad Miller. He does it once again in this series and in his whole playoff career. 10 ppg and 2 FREAKING REBOUNDS a game. Are you kidding me? My little 12 year old brother can step up on the court and collect more rebounds than this guy.

This guy just like Peja is a complete joke in the playoffs. Yet his supporters come up with excuses such as "he spreads the floor" or he shoots the lights out for a center. Excuse me but i havn't seen any of this in the playoffs.

If he's just gonna avg 15 ppg and 4 apg in the season and play like crap in the playoffs then whats the use of paying and having this overpaid center.

Just incase you don't remember this isn't the first playoff series he has choked. He did this in Seattle by letting Jerome James score 18 ppg and yet people keep refusing to accept the fact that he's just not a player that will help your team go deep in the playoffs....

In all fairness to Brad he did play hurt last year.
I do agree that this team needs a new center. I don't think Brad is tradeable though.

[yanon]

I would like to trade Bibby and Brad for KG. KG, Artest, and Bonzi will be a "tru warier" team.

[natedizzle]

I guess now that Peja isn't here we needed someone to dissapear in the playoffs.

[Pacboy]

What a performance by our All Star center. And this guy wants to represent the U.S in the Olympics?:rolleyes:

[yanon]

What a performance by our All Star center. And this guy wants to represent the U.S in the Olympics?:rolleyes:

One of the foreign players with hop will probably posterize him.

[Andriod_KiNg]

So we can get rid of his giant contract for a decent shot blocker rebounding, and maybe afford to sign Bonzi back and get a back up center as well, im down, lets start shopping his sorry but around.

[Rome]

Get a new center that can block shots/rebound by using the MLE or by trade and put Brad in the bench or IR.

[Merdiesel]

Trade KT, Move brad to back up power forward behind Shareef, and get a good center in there.

[natedizzle]

Brad has a huge contract-I don't see any takers.

[BLNINJA #81]

Brad has a huge contract-I don't see any takers.
1 word.. Amnesty.

he's a useless pathetic fool whose game is only good enough for the regular season. He has no drive at all to perform on a higher stage/level.

[reyes13]

The ONLY way we should keep him is if we can sign a decent 7footer so that he can be moved to the 4. Another issue needs to be adressed is the PG spot. Our two weakest spots are using the most of our payroll!

[BMiller52]

LOL at trade Brad+Mike for KG. It's just not that simple and the twolves probably wouldn't do that anyways. LOL at amnesty-ing him. LOL at a lot of this stuff. Yeah the guy dissappeared but it doesn't mean he has 0 trade value. He hasn't been the same since he broke the leg it seems like. And FYI I do want to trade him but saying stuff like that is just really extreme. You're going to have to find players that do the stuff that Brad doesn't when you trade him but you've gotta realize those guys will have problems too. Nobody's perfect. Brad is really overpaid so you probably end up taking back another overpaid player. You can't trade him for KG though and amnestying him would just be...

[chelle]

I don't think the amnesty clause applies anymore. It was just a one time thing.

While I am not a big supporter of trading (or giving a MAJOR deal to) a guy based of one series, I am no longer TOTALLY opposed to the idea.

[Bricklayer]

Ok,enough of this silly amnesty/waiver stuff. That does NOT happen to players of Brad's caliber (or even Kenny's) when they are healthy. Nor is there even an amnesty clause anymore -- it was a one time gift to the owners last summer. It is not even worth talking about., If we want to trade Brad, there will obviously be a market. Maybe a considerable one. Competent centers are rare. He's an asset whetehr its on the court or not.

[yanon]

Brick,

Tell us your master plan to turn this team into a champ. I want all the details.

[Kingsroots]

I was just reading an article over on BSPN talking about Kiki Vandeweghe being let go and how George Carl was saying that during the offseason he wants to get a big man who can shoot, so logically I put two and two together and came up with this... Trade Miller for Camby! Pretty much solves both of our teams problems, er, well complaints at least.

[sdballer]

Ok,enough of this silly amnesty/waiver stuff. That does NOT happen to players of Brad's caliber (or even Kenny's) when they are healthy. Nor is there even an amnesty clause anymore -- it was a one time gift to the owners last summer. It is not even worth talking about., If we want to trade Brad, there will obviously be a market. Maybe a considerable one. Competent centers are rare. He's an asset whetehr its on the court or not.

Agreed. I'd like to see them both gone but they need to be traded wisely.

[SacTownKid]

Well NOBODY is untradeable, from out standpoint or another teams, I still would like to see what happens when there is some sort of offensive scheme with this team. Adelman has even said that they had ZERO time to practice offense. Brad is a system guy. And I would be a little worried if we drop Brad and aren't able to compete with teams that clog the lane.

[SacTownKid]

Still the fact does remain, we NEED shotblocking. More than anything else, that is what we need. We won't survive without it. You hear every team talk about the Kings and how they want to attack the paint b/c we have no shotblockers. And they proceed to kick our butt in that department.

I wouldn't mind Camby one dang bit.

[yanon]

I was just reading an article over on BSPN talking about Kiki Vandeweghe being let go and how George Carl was saying that during the offseason he wants to get a big man who can shoot, so logically I put two and two together and came up with this... Trade Miller for Camby! Pretty much solves both of our teams problems, er, well complaints at least.

I think George wants to acquire a guy like Brad Miller to play center and slide Camby to powerforward. Getting Nene is a real possibility but didn't he just had a surgery to repair one of his tendons?

[Kingsroots]

I think George wants to acquire a guy like Brad Miller to play center and slide Camby to powerforward. Getting Nene is a real possibility but didn't he just had a surgery to repair one of his tendons?

That would be dumb in my opinion. If anything keep Camby at center and move Brad to the 4. Of course that is just my opinion. Anyway, I would not trade Brad for Nene straight up, no way no how. Brad I think has at least proven that he can play consistantly in the NBA while Nene has not.

[yanon]

That would be dumb in my opinion. If anything keep Camby at center and move Brad to the 4. Of course that is just my opinion. Anyway, I would not trade Brad for Nene straight up, no way no how. Brad I think has at least proven that he can play consistantly in the NBA while Nene has not.

Brad will get destroy by the more atheletic and quicker power forwards. Camby can at least hang with them and battle for rebounds while Brad can continue to shoot his little face up jumpers to lure the opposing centers away from the low post.

Of course, I wasn't implying that we trade Brad straight up for Nene because he is unproven but we can get something else from the Nuggets as well like forcing them to take one of our bad contracts (KT) and/or give us a better back up point guard.

[Kings113]

We should get 1 or 2 of Nene/Camby/Elson from Denver then. :)

[SLAB]

Ok, Brads "performance" this series was just pathetic.

Im totally on the trade Brad bandwagon as of now.

But I want to know what we could get for him? I mean, who would want him? Or who would want his deal?

Im just bitter, give me a few dasy and Ill settle down a bit.

[Troy]

Ok, Brads "performance" this series was just pathetic.

Im totally on the trade Brad bandwagon as of now.

But I want to know what we could get for him? I mean, who would want him? Or who would want his deal?

Im just bitter, give me a few dasy and Ill settle down a bit.

I doubt you'll settle down as many of us here are really tired of Brad not showing up. He is not athletic which we can live with, he does shoot good for a big man, but it his lack of effort that kills us. He is just going through the motions and guaranteed big bucks, like Peja was doing with us. With Bonzi and Artest playing to the degree they are, Brad's attitude is sticking out as much as a florescent spot light. We are not the same Kings we were with our spot up shooting and great passing....we are now a hard nosed defensive team and team that goes in their and beats you up....look at how Bonzi just goes up and gets his a rebound and battles TD and the other 7 footers on the Spurs for the ball and many times came up with it....that was pure effort and a never say die attitude being his contract year or not....he earns his $ as does Ron in a big way. We can live with Bibby's lack of defense with a big C back there to play goalie, Bibby actually was trying and did o.k. against Parker who is hard to guard with his quickness. We can even cover up a lot of Brad's weaknesses if we do keep him if he is alongside a dominant Center. Then I'd be for trying Brad at PF and SAR backing up Brad off the bench or the other way around....probably the other way around from what I saw in the Spurs series.

[Alacron]

When we first got Brad the thing we were most impressed with was how hard he played. He would dive to the floor for every loose ball.

That Brad is gone. It sure looks like he's pulling a Peja/Vince Carter. I am all for trading Brad if we can get real value in return.
~~

[Kings113]

Vince Carter? lol.

Peja? Basically, yeah.

[venom_7]

ya know, i wouldn't mind if they traded him. every game this series, i kept hoping, ok, now he will play like B52. but it never happened. and its not like the Spurs took him out of the game.

[Burrito06]

Still the fact does remain, we NEED shotblocking. More than anything else, that is what we need. We won't survive without it. You hear every team talk about the Kings and how they want to attack the paint b/c we have no shotblockers. And they proceed to kick our butt in that department.

I wouldn't mind Camby one dang bit.

I wouldn't minh him either, but every year he misses considerable time. I don't think I could deal with that. After all his nickname is Mr. Glass.

[Sac.Kings]

Get KG, bench Miller and start SAR at PF and get rid of KT and bring in a backup PG along with some shooters off the bench and hustle guys. A big wouldn't hurt neither.

[yanon]

Get KG, bench Miller and start SAR at PF and get rid of KT and bring in a backup PG along with some shooters off the bench and hustle guys. A big wouldn't hurt neither.

You're a funny man. How can the Kings get KG and still have Miller on the Kings? The only way TWolves would trade KG is get a big man in return and plus other star players and draft picks.

[West_Gunslinger16]

Well, if we're going to get Marcus Camby we should get Brian Skinner again. He's obviously a better rebounder and blocker than Miller.

[Sac.Kings]

The way this thread is going, we are going to end up trading for half the league's big men.

[bibbyweb]

Thinking about the timing for trading Brad Miller, this could be one of the worst times ever to trade him. He has just showcased how bad he can be. So I don't think he will be traded over the summer when his value has bottomed out. I think it will be during the season, something like the way Webber was traded after getting the Player of the Month award where his value was probably at its highest.

[Troy]

Thinking about the timing for trading Brad Miller, this could be one of the worst times ever to trade him. He has just showcased how bad he can be. So I don't think he will be traded over the summer when his value has bottomed out. I think it will be during the season, something like the way Webber was traded after getting the Player of the Month award where his value was probably at its highest.

He did showcase how bad he is or can be. People still know he is a good shooter for big guy, but is very soft defensively. I think we can still see what is our there this summer for him and K9. I think his only chance to be o.k. with the team is obviously putting forth effort and also moving to the PF position and being backed by a big Center who tekes care of the rebounding/shoot blocking which he doesn't. Otherwise I don't see keeping him.

[PFFFT!!]

Brad? The same guy who on a interview with Grant said he only has to put up with reporters another 2 years? Looks like hes really looking forward to the 2 years that remains. Sound like a guy whos resignated the game of basketball. Im all for trading him or Bibby, but who will take them? They are both overpaid. Unless Petrie can pull some rabbits out of his hat, were stuck.

[Kings113]

People said the same thing about Peja (different contracts, but still), and look what happened. Not only this season, but last season.

I don't think one bad playoff performance is going to absolutely kill his value.

[Bricklayer]

People said the same thing about Peja (different contracts, but still), and look what happened. Not only this season, but last season.

I don't think one bad playoff performance is going to absolutely kill his value.

Think the very interesting possible suitor in all this might be Chciago. They already know him. Desperately need a center + already have a rebounder/shotblocker to cover his pastiness. Its close to home for him. And a huge factor is that they can absorb his salary without having to match salaries back to us. Thus that opens up much more flexibility for us in trying to move him to the Bulls and maybe shed a little salary ourselves.

Throw all that together and we could potentially trade Brad to Chicago for one of their backup PGs and one of their #1s. We could even trade Brad and our #1 to them for that pick they got from the Knicks and maybe use it to snag an Aldridge or Thomas.

[Kings113]

Indeed ^. I've brought up a few times the Chicago media a few times did talk about wanting him back earlier in the year.

Brad for Gordon or Duhon/High R1 pick, sounds good. :)

[Bricklayer]

This, just for kicks, is roughly $1 million in salary to Minn from working -- amazing what you can do witha team under the cap as facilitator:

Sacto

Out:
Miller
Potapenko (ending)
Thomas
Cisco
#1 pick (#19)

In:
Garnett

Chicago

Out:
Sweetney (ending)
#1 pick (from NY -- #1,#2,#3 most likely)

In:
Miller
#1 pick (#19)

Minnesota

Out:
Garnett

In:
Potapenko (ending)
Thomas
Cisco
Sweetney (ending)
#1 (#1,#2,#3 most likely)


Its just for kicks, but using Chicago's capspace, and filling their need for a center, you can actually construct a semi-reasonable Garnett offer centered around one of the top picks in the draft, a young guard (Cisco) and a young PF (Sweetney) + some ending contracts. Meanwhile both the Kings and Wolves shed some salary which ends up in Chicago in the person of their new center.

Throw in either Malik Allen (ending) From chicago, or Jason Hart (ending) from us, and the deal actually works $$$wise, and there are all sorts of other permutations.

[nbrans]

^I don't think there's enough incentive for the Bulls to facillitate that deal. Why not just trade the #1 to the Bulls for Garnett themselves? On the other hand, if the Bulls get Garnett for, say, the #1 pick and Luol Deng, Chandler might be expendible: Brad Miller and Garcia for Chandler and Gordon?

Otherwise, Toronto might be the better facilitator. They're looking for a PG and a center and they have cap space.

[Padrino]

^I don't think there's enough incentive for the Bulls to facillitate that deal. Why not just trade the #1 to the Bulls for Garnett themselves? On the other hand, if the Bulls get Garnett for, say, the #1 pick and Luol Deng, Chandler might be expendible: Brad Miller and Garcia for Chandler and Gordon?

Otherwise, Toronto might be the better facilitator. They're looking for a PG and a center and they have cap space.

:eek:

that would be quite lovely. could create some issues with minutes distribution at the guard spots, but i like it.

[Bricklayer]

Unfortunately with Chicago's big playoff push, the chances of getting any of their core guys really went down. They will be looking to plug their holes, but its hard to see them giving away their top pieces for anything less than a slam dunk. Certianly Cisco + Brad for Chandler/Gordon doesn't move them ahead and robs them of all their interior presence.

[Bricklayer]

This, just for kicks, is roughly $1 million in salary to Minn from working -- amazing what you can do witha team under the cap as facilitator:

Sacto

Out:
Miller
Potapenko (ending)
Thomas
Cisco
#1 pick (#19)

In:
Garnett

Chicago

Out:
Sweetney (ending)
#1 pick (from NY -- #1,#2,#3 most likely)

In:
Miller
#1 pick (#19)

Minnesota

Out:
Garnett

In:
Potapenko (ending)
Thomas
Cisco
Sweetney (ending)
#1 (#1,#2,#3 most likely)


Its just for kicks, but using Chicago's capspace, and filling their need for a center, you can actually construct a semi-reasonable Garnett offer centered around one of the top picks in the draft, a young guard (Cisco) and a young PF (Sweetney) + some ending contracts. Meanwhile both the Kings and Wolves shed some salary which ends up in Chicago in the person of their new center.

Throw in either Malik Allen (ending) From chicago, or Jason Hart (ending) from us, and the deal actually works $$$wise, and there are all sorts of other permutations.

Quoting myself -- here's a permutation -- pull Thomas out of the deal. Send SAR to Chicago along with Miller, have Chicago send an extra $6-$7mil in salaries over to the Wolves (Harrington +...Duhon? Deng? Songaila? Gordon?). Sweetens everybody's pot. Chicago now has ample reason to do it -- they have created the frontcourt we have discussed here -- Brad, SAR, Chandler, and they have kept all but one of their smaller players. And they still have 2 #1s.

Meanwhile the Wolves get the additional youngster and avoid the Thomas contract.

[nbrans]

Quoting myself -- here's a permutation -- pull Thomas out of the deal. Send SAR to Chicago along with Miller, have Chicago send an extra $6-$7mil in salaries over to the Wolves (Harrington +...Duhon? Deng? Songaila? Gordon?). Sweetens everybody's pot. Chicago now has ample reason to do it -- they have created the frontcourt we have discussed here -- Brad, SAR, Chandler, and they have kept all but one of their smaller players. And they still have 2 #1s.

Meanwhile the Wolves get the additional youngster and avoid the Thomas contract.

Again, though, Chicago has all the cards with the Knicks' #1 pick and their young players, and if they wanted Garnett they could just get him themselves -- which has to be their first goal if Garnett is available. I mean, I can't see them wanting Brad Miller more than Garnett.

The Kings need to BEAT Chicago's best offer with a Garnett proposal, not rely on them to help them out.

[nbrans]

Here's another wild and crazy idea:

Sacramento outgoing:
Mike Bibby
Francisco Garcia
Kenny Thomas
Ronnie Price
Potapenko
#19

Sacramento incoming:
Kevin Garnett
Marco Jaric
Eddie Griffin

Minnesota outgoing:
Kevin Garnett
Marco Jaric
Eddie Griffin

Minneosta incoming:
Allen Iverson
Steven Hunter
Potapenko
Kenny Thomas
#19

Philadelphia outgoing:
Allen Iverson
Steven Hunter

Philadelphia incoming:
Mike Bibby
Francisco Garcia
Ronnie Price

NEW KINGS:
PG: TBD, Jaric
SG: Bonzi, Martin
SF: Artest, Martin, Monia
PF: KG, SAR
C: Miller, SAR, Griffin

Now, granted, that's a pretty big TBD, but it's also a pretty crazy good front line.

[BMiller52]

KG won't get traded.

[Bricklayer]

Again, though, Chicago has all the cards with the Knicks' #1 pick and their young players, and if they wanted Garnett they could just get him themselves -- which has to be their first goal if Garnett is available. I mean, I can't see them wanting Brad Miller more than Garnett.

The Kings need to BEAT Chicago's best offer with a Garnett proposal, not rely on them to help them out.

Chicago doesn't have to give up half its team to get those guys. Figure KG costs Chicago, at a minumum, their #1, Chandler, +1 of (Deng, Heinrich, Gordon etc.) And probably a bit more than that.

Reef/Miller costs them their #1, but also nets them a #1. And then the other player goign to Minny ay be as cheap as Songaila.

I would pursue Garnett myself if I were them, but if the end result is:

C-?
PF- Garnett
SF- Nocioni
OG- Heinrich
PG- Duhon
6th- Gordon
+ one #1

vs.
C-Miller
PF-Chandler
SF-Deng
OG-Heinrich
PG-Duhon
6th-SAR
7th-Gordon
8th-Nocioni
+two #1s

#2 might very well look more attractive.

[nbrans]

Chicago doesn't have to give up half its team to get those guys. Figure KG costs Chicago, at a minumum, their #1, Chandler, +1 of (Deng, Heinrich, Gordon etc.) And probably a bit more than that.

Reef/Miller costs them their #1, but also nets them a #1. And then the other player goign to Minny ay be as cheap as Songaila.

I would pursue Garnett myself if I were them, but if the end result is:

C-?
PF- Garnett
SF- Nocioni
OG- Heinrich
PG- Duhon
6th- Gordon
+ one #1

vs.
C-Miller
PF-Chandler
SF-Deng
OG-Heinrich
PG-Duhon
6th-SAR
7th-Gordon
8th-Nocioni
+two #1s

#2 might very well look more attractive.

Garnett for Gordon, Deng and #1 (Thomas/Aldridge) would probably get the trade done, leaving Chicago with:

C - Chandler/Sweetney
PF - Garnett/Songaila
SF - Nocioni
SG - TBD (Bonzi?)
PG - Hinrich/Gordon

Even with both Garnett and Chandler Chicago still has a ton of cap space to fill out the rest of the spots with free agents. Meanwhile, TWolves have instant cap room and three good young players.

I think the Kings are going to have to beat an offer of Gordon/Deng/#1 pick, which would take at least Bibby, and probably a third team. Especially since Chicago can make their own very attractive offer, I doubt they'd involve themselves as facilitators on principle alone.

[Bricklayer]

Beyond your own seemingly insatiable need to have Bibby included in any and all trade talks, of what possible relevance is he to a trade using the Heinrich/Gordon/Duhon Chicago Bulls as the pivot foot?

Answer: he's probably not.

[Bballkingsrock]

Here's another wild and crazy idea:

Sacramento outgoing:
Mike Bibby
Francisco Garcia
Kenny Thomas
Ronnie Price
Potapenko
#19

Sacramento incoming:
Kevin Garnett
Marco Jaric
Eddie Griffin

Minnesota outgoing:
Kevin Garnett
Marco Jaric
Eddie Griffin

Minneosta incoming:
Allen Iverson
Steven Hunter
Potapenko
Kenny Thomas
#19

Philadelphia outgoing:
Allen Iverson
Steven Hunter

Philadelphia incoming:
Mike Bibby
Francisco Garcia
Ronnie Price

NEW KINGS:
PG: TBD, Jaric
SG: Bonzi, Martin
SF: Artest, Martin, Monia
PF: KG, SAR
C: Miller, SAR, Griffin

Now, granted, that's a pretty big TBD, but it's also a pretty crazy good front line.

That would be really nice adn we could sign either Mike james or Jason Terry for the starting PG.

[BigWaxer]

KG won't get traded.

I agree but its fun to play around and see the possibilities.

Most of the top teams over the years have gotten their superstar players through the draft. Superstars are hard to come by, if they moved Garnett that may be one of the worst moves in NBA history.

[nbrans]

Beyond your own seemingly insatiable need to have Bibby included in any and all trade talks, of what possible relevance is he to a trade using the Heinrich/Gordon/Duhon Chicago Bulls as the pivot foot?

Answer: he's probably not.

Obviously Chicago wouldn't want Bibby, which is why I suggested using Toronto as a pivot and not Chicago. Toronto has cap space, already has two extremely good young Pfs, needs a young PG and might be a better facilitator for a three team Kings/KG deal than Chicago.

If KG is on the block, Chicago is a COMPETITOR, not an ally. Find teams who KG wouldn't be as valuable to and then use them as partners.

It's my esteem of Bibby's ability and trade value that make me bring him into trade talks all the time. Miller isn't enough to land KG if he's available. Bibby and some other parts might be.

[LPKingsFan]

You would have to think the Bulls are making a run for either Garnett or Jermaine this season. They have a likely top-5 pick, and can dangle a combination of Deng, Gordon, and Duhon. Plus they have the cap space to take on more salary than they give up. I would think they make a move for one of the two big guys, then use the rest of their cap space to extend their own core (Hinrich, Nocioni long term).

Thier other option, of course, is signing a couple lesser-tier free agents to shore up the PF spot (Al Harrington has been long rumored) and then moving to improve the C spot through trade. That's where I guess a deal for Brad would make sense.

[BMiller52]

I agree but its fun to play around and see the possibilities.

Most of the top teams over the years have gotten their superstar players through the draft. Superstars are hard to come by, if they moved Garnett that may be one of the worst moves in NBA history.


For a while it is but when you get realistic it just gets annoying.

[SacKings4Life21]

Gorden starts... At least when I went to the game he did. KH Gorden backcourt

[nbrans]

Something like this... it's far from perfect, but it could be a start:

Sacramento outgoing:
Mike Bibby
Brad Miller
Francisco Garcia
Kenny Thomas
Corliss Williamson
#19

Sacramento incoming:
Kevin Garnett
Eddie Griffin
Mike James S&T @ $7 million

Minnesota outgoing:
Kevin Garnett
Eddie Griffin

Minneosta incoming:
Mike Bibby
Charlie Villanueva
Kenny Thomas
Corliss Williamson

Toronto outgoing:
Mike James S&T
Charlie Villanueva

Toronto incoming:
Brad Miller
Francisco Garcia
#19

New Kings:

PG: James/TBD
SG: Bonzi/Martin
SF: Artest/Martin
PF: SAR/Grififn
C: Garnett/Griffin/TBD

Toronto could go after Jason Terry with their cap space:

PG: Terry/Calderon
SG: Peterson/Garcia
SF: Gay (#5 pick)/Bonner
PF: Bosh
C: Miller/Sow

Minnesota:

PG: Bibby/Hudson
SG: McCants/Jaric
SF: Davis
PF: Villanueva/KT
C: Blount/Madsen

[BMiller52]

Garnett can't play center.

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Garnett for Gordon, Deng and #1 (Thomas/Aldridge) would probably get the trade done...No it wouldn't: Deng and Gordon's salaries barely make up a little more than a *quarter* of Garnett's twenty million dollar salary, and the Bulls don't have enough number-one draft picks to make up the difference.

In order to make the salaries match (which teams still need to do, unless I'm mistaken), any deal that the Bulls could do to get Garnett *has* to include Chandler and at least *three* other guys, or Chandler, two other guys *and* the #1 overall. Trades cannot be made until contracts roll over to 2006-07 (July 1st, or whenever it is), and Chandler is the only player that the Bulls currently have under contract through 2006-07 that's making even as much as $3.7M... If they wanted to keep Chandler, they would literally have to trade *their entire team* to get Garnett, as the Bulls payroll for 2006-07 currently stands at $27,292,392... Which means that, if you take out Chandler, then Garnett will make more next season *than the whole Bulls team combined*.

They are totally *not* competing in the Garnett "sweepstakes."

[bozzwell]

No it wouldn't: Deng and Gordon's salaries barely make up a little more than a *quarter* of Garnett's twenty million dollar salary, and the Bulls don't have enough number-one draft picks to make up the difference.

In order to make the salaries match (which teams still need to do, unless I'm mistaken), any deal that the Bulls could do to get Garnett *has* to include Chandler and at least *three* other guys, or Chandler, two other guys *and* the #1 overall. Trades cannot be made until contracts roll over to 2006-07 (July 1st, or whenever it is), and Chandler is the only player that the Bulls currently have under contract through 2006-07 that's making even as much as $3.7M... If they wanted to keep Chandler, they would literally have to trade *their entire team* to get Garnett, as the Bulls payroll for 2006-07 currently stands at $27,292,392... Which means that, if you take out Chandler, then Garnett will make more next season *than the whole Bulls team combined*.

They are totally *not* competing in the Garnett "sweepstakes."

Bulls will be so far under the cap (15mil+) that they can absorb KG's salary in trade. In fact, if I am not mistaken about the rules, taking Deng, Gordon and #1 would work for Minny precisly because it gives them a lot of salary cap relief. Bulls can take on extra salary because they have all that cap space.

[nbrans]

^ What he said.

If Garnett is getting traded it's going to be extremely hard to beat what the Bulls can offer.

[Bricklayer]

Actually don't think that's right according to the trade checkers -- the Bulls NEED to include Chandler.

The Bulls can take back more salary then they send out (as in my three way), but the Wolves cannot. So whatever package the Wolves get back is going to have to be within 25% of KGs salary. With an $18mil salary, means they will have to take back about 13.5mil (or more).

[Rome]

Garnett can't play center.



What do you mean he can't play center? Are you talking about his physical ability? If so, then your boy miller wouldn't qualify to be a center either. Garnett can do everything Miller does + rebound, play defense, block shots, score, draw double teams, pass, shoot, and almost anything else imaginable... Oh and did i mention play defense and rebound....

[LPKingsFan]

Putting KG at center is a waste of his talent. He's 6'11", 220 lbs. Brad is 7'0" 260. Duncan plays center at times too because he's, well, built like one (6'11", 260). And if you bring up Boris Diaw, you're missing the point.

[nbrans]

Actually don't think that's right according to the trade checkers -- the Bulls NEED to include Chandler.

The Bulls can take back more salary then they send out (as in my three way), but the Wolves cannot. So whatever package the Wolves get back is going to have to be within 25% of KGs salary. With an $18mil salary, means they will have to take back about 13.5mil (or more).

I think since the end result of a Deng/Gordon/Aldridge for Garnett trade would be both teams under the cap the 125% rule wouldn't apply. But I could be mistaken.

[Bricklayer]

I think since the end result of a Deng/Gordon/Aldridge for Garnett trade would be both teams under the cap the 125% rule wouldn't apply. But I could be mistaken.

I am oddly fuzzy on this point, and my brief bit of CBA research did not answer it conclusively. I have seen it done in a sign and trade setting (Joe Johnson last year), but in the normal setting am struggling to recall a single capped out/non-capped out team trade where the non-capped team took on a large salary from the capped team without matching.

[whozit]

Old CBA, so it might be a mute point.

Kings and the Jazz, with the Kings sending Polynice in exchange for draft picks.

[Bricklayer]

As an aside, and sticking to the theme of this thread, if that IS possible, you could try something simple and straightforward like this:

Brad
#19 pick

for

Bulls pick (from Knicks) (top 3 pick most likely)

And use that pick to go after Aldridge or Thomas or whatnot.


Maybe.

[pdxKingsFan]

The problem with that is if the pick doesn't pan out we have an even huger hole than we do now. Even the big men who turn into studs usually take 2-3 seasons to mature which may be our window of opportunity with this current team.

[nbrans]

^If it meant getting LaMarcus Aldridge I'd be for it. He has a polished game and could contribute immediately. It could be the kind of risk that could really pay off.

[Gilles]

I am oddly fuzzy on this point, and my brief bit of CBA research did not answer it conclusively. I have seen it done in a sign and trade setting (Joe Johnson last year), but in the normal setting am struggling to recall a single capped out/non-capped out team trade where the non-capped team took on a large salary from the capped team without matching.
Bulls can trade Garnett fot Deng/Gordon/picks using their capspace and as a result of such a trade Wolves will also get a trade exception worth about 13.4 millions.

[Rome]

Ok so if we can't have KG at center then put him at the PF spot and sign a cheap center. KG doesn't really need a "great" center next to him. Remember in Minni he had Ervin Johnson.

[Troy]

Garnett can't play center.

Garnett can play just about any position being what a athletic guy he is, using him at center would be a huge waste when you have big guys that are non athletic out there (Brad).

[LPKingsFan]

I was still leaning against moving Brad because of his unique skillset, despite recent playoff struggles. But now with Rick gone, I don't see Brad really fitting in anymore. Now, let's not go trade him for Lorenzen Wright... but moving to a top pick in the draft doesn't sound all that bad.

[Troy]

I was still leaning against moving Brad because of his unique skillset, despite recent playoff struggles. But now with Rick gone, I don't see Brad really fitting in anymore. Now, let's not go trade him for Lorenzen Wright... but moving to a top pick in the draft doesn't sound all that bad.

Right, now that Rick and the assistant coaches are gone, we have to shake this team up some more. We are almost there, but not quite. We need to sign Bonzi and go from there, even before getting a new coach. A new coach however, with his thought process will determine what team we will be. Ron is 1 player who is extremely defensive, as is Bonzi to a varying degree. They are 2 players who teamed together have no equal in the NBA. What we do with the other pieces to the team is going to be interesting, do we keep expanding on this and getting rid of the soft Miller???? I sure hope so. It will be interesting what we do to this team, but we need to know who our new coach is going to be pretty soon to know what direction we are going in with free agents, draft pics, trades, team focus (defensive/offensive/hybrid).

The Princeton system looks to be dead, on with the Artest/Bonzi wrecking crew method. :D

[LPKingsFan]

We need to sign Bonzi and go from there, even before getting a new coach.

Most of your points are good and valid, but since the Kings can't do anything through free agency until July, I hope the coaching situation is resolved by then! ;)

[SacTownKid]

I was still leaning against moving Brad because of his unique skillset, despite recent playoff struggles. But now with Rick gone, I don't see Brad really fitting in anymore. Now, let's not go trade him for Lorenzen Wright... but moving to a top pick in the draft doesn't sound all that bad.

Brad fit in better with Indiana, and Rick Adelman wasn't the coach. Brad and his skillsets are what they are. ANY coach can use them. If he fits or not will be the decision of the new coach, Petrie, and the Maloofs.

[Troy]

Most of your points are good and valid, but since the Kings can't do anything through free agency until July, I hope the coaching situation is resolved by then! ;)

You are totally correct. As so many people are here...so into signing Bonzi after seeing how he was the best round 1 player in the NBA and did us proud almost singlehandedly allowing us to beat the Spurs when some other high paid players on our team....cough cough....choked big time. Once the coach is determined and we know his style or can somewhat determine it, we can go from there. I really don't see us going away from the defense Artest brings to the team and the post ups that Artest, Wells, and SAR do so well. We need some good spot shooting off the bench (like in Bobby signing with us cheap) and some others. Look at what the Spurs bench looks like, it's like what weapon do I chose???? They have so many proven players that have taken the big shot. Bobby could be our old snipper that still have plenty of spark left, he is a no brainer seeing how much people still love him and his ties to the Sac community. He would have to sign for under $3M or so to make it work, but what is $ anyways when you've played for so long right.....it's all about having fun in the end, you have enough to live off of right???? :D

[Kings113]

It should be resolved before the draft.

[Kings113]

I was still leaning against moving Brad because of his unique skillset, despite recent playoff struggles. But now with Rick gone, I don't see Brad really fitting in anymore. Now, let's not go trade him for Lorenzen Wright... but moving to a top pick in the draft doesn't sound all that bad.

Wright's a UFA, and Brad isn't a center Memphis is looking for.

[LPKingsFan]

Wright's a UFA, and Brad isn't a center Memphis is looking for.

I know. That was sarcasm, a reference to what I consider some ill-advised measurments of Brad's trade value that I've seen around here. I'm all about getting a defensive presence to man the paint, but a starting frontcourt of Artest, Francisco Elson, and Wright just doesn't do as much for me as it does for some others here, apparently. ;)

[Kings113]

I like Elson, but not Wright with him. Griffin/Magloire (PF/C and C, respectively)? Yes.

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Does anybody know if Jeff McInnis intends to invoke his player option? Because the way he's been playing defense in the playoffs, I have to say that I don't hate the sound of Jason Collins and McInnis for Miller. Collins doesn't give you numbers, but he plays solid defense, and is a load, and McInnis gives you a legitimate ball handler and a proven scoring option off the bench.

[Kings113]

Not sure on the PO for McInnis. But I wouldn't mind that package at all, Slim. Collins has impressed me the last year or so. Especially this playoffs.

Could still get a rebounding/shot-blocking big too.

[Bricklayer]

Oh, sorry, but...ugh.

Collins = the ultimate nothing, and McInnis is a cancer. Not only would I pass, I would PASS. Maybe even pass gas on the whole deal. ;)

[nbrans]

I wouldn't mind Collins for Kenny.

[BMiller52]

If you get offered Collins for Kenny you do it. Collins is a very good post defender.

[reyes13]

I wouldn't mind Collins for Kenny. Nice...or Najera and Boykins for KT and Hart?

[LPKingsFan]

I like Collins too, think he's underrated as a defender. OR maybe not, since a lot of others here feel the same too ;).

Still, he'd be one of the guys I'd want as our 4/5 big man backup behind Miller, and not replacing him, with a guy like Eddie Griffin at the starting 4.

[reyes13]

Griffen would stretch the defense for Bonzi and Artest...kind of skinny for a starting PF though. Most importantly, how's his rebounding?

[Kings113]

He's a good rebounder. Averaged 6+ off the bench the last two years in 20+ minutes. Was 5.6 rebs this year, but that only went down because he went out of the rotation for a month or so, then came back in April when it was "look and see" for next year. As before that it was in the mid-6s. Also was top 5 (mostly 3rd) in BPG before that too. I believe he gets his shot back over the summer, along with that eye surgery.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?statsId=3517

I agree LP. Though I think Collins might actually start depending on the new coach.